“Any invisible force that creates change is Qi”

John Millar is a renowned Qigong teacher with over 25 years of experience. He has trained extensively in various Qigong systems, qualifying to teach in four different traditions. 

Millar spent over a decade working in the corporate sector, applying Qigong principles to leadership and communication training. This unique experience gave him insights into making these ancient practices accessible to modern, Western audiences.

Millar actively collaborates with other respected teachers worldwide, continually refining his understanding and methods. His authentic, pragmatic approach focuses on creating spaces where students can explore their path to physical, mental, and spiritual freedom.

In this thought-provoking episode, John shares his perspective on adapting Qigong teachings for Western audiences. He explores the differences between traditional Chinese and Western teaching approaches, the importance of simplicity and authenticity, and the need to create a safe space for students to find their own path to freedom.

Renowned Qigong teacher John Miller makes a bold statement: as Westerners, we can’t teach Qigong the way the Chinese teach and be as effective. Why does he say that, and is it a good idea to adapt the teachings? What are the things he feels need to be addressed? Let’s explore this together. My name is Torsten Lueddecke, and this is the Wisdom Qigong podcast. Today, he would like to focus

a little bit on the differences between teaching as a Western teacher in the Western world compared to being a Chinese teacher. I think the thing for me is that I’ve come to realize over the years that, as Westerners, we can’t teach in the way that the Chinese teach and be as effective. Oh, I can feel myself climbing on a soapbox straight away. I struggle a little bit with

some of the ideas that exist within Qigong. I’ve never been good with authority, so the idea of hierarchies of teachers has always bothered me. And I was actually talking to one of the people I’m working with within the Qigong academy this morning, and he was saying, “Who were your most inspiring teachers?” I talked about a game that we play on the teaching program, where we use the idea

of Taiji ball. We stand in a circle and then pass the Taiji ball to the next person, who then leads the group and passes it around, passes it around, passes it around. And we had somebody come in who was observing from the university, who practices Qigong and meditation but has never taught before. She didn’t want to be in the circle at first, but then she relaxed and joined

the circle, and the ball was passed to her. She had never led a group before, and it was just mind-blowingly beautiful how somebody who had never thought about teaching before could walk in and just hold the space, share an idea, and share a movement in such a way that everybody follows, everybody engages, and everybody hears. And there was something so honest, so real, and so authentic about it

that it was just mind-blowing. Then I reflect on some of the amazing Chinese teachers that I work with, and I go, it’s just different. It’s not better, it’s just different. So, yeah, I think we should embrace our ability to share Qigong with others. Now, when you say that, it automatically comes to mind that I know in traditional Qigong, there are these ideas of hierarchy. And I know that,

you know, there was also a secrecy about Qigong. It’s like, only if you’re the top master, you know certain things, and then if you’re a little lower on the ladder, you know other things. And the students know very little. But Dr. Pang really broke with this tradition. I mean, he was the first one. Dr. Pang, for those who don’t know, is the founder of Zhineng Qigong, and he

was the first one to say, this is for everyone. And to my understanding, you know, he did exactly what you just described. He broke the whole hierarchy thing. And he also didn’t call himself master. He calls himself teacher. So he’s this humble guy who set up the whole system that people are now, unfortunately, worshiping in a way because he’s been so amazing in his work, but it’s not

his intention, and it’s not a necessity. And also, yeah, it depends on the teacher you’re working with. Now, in Zhineng Qigong, some of them are very clear about, you know, that we’re all eye to eye, you know, others have a little more ego, maybe, I don’t know, and want to be seen as something special. But I think that the theory really, in Zhineng Qigong, is to break exactly

that pattern that you described. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And this is in no way a criticism of teachers who like to be considered special. I think that we need to separate the idea of a teacher as somebody who can teach us things from the idea of somebody who is inspirational in the way that they live. A teacher doesn’t need to be inspirational in the way that they live. Actually,

some of the most interesting people that I’ve studied with have been quite deeply flawed, and I’ve learned a massive amount from them, but I wouldn’t want to be like them. I’ve just learned a lot from them. And I think the separation of those is important. But, yeah, absolutely. And the tradition of hierarchy is also interesting if you look at the actual evolution of Qigong and the idea that

the term actually only really came into prominence in the 1950s. Prior to this, we had practices such as the Dao Yin practices, and the evolution of the practice seems to have three aspects to me. So we’ve got the spiritual traditions related to Taoism, Buddhism, and arguably Confucianism, won’t go there. Don’t, don’t. Don’t think it’s as impactful as we pretend it is. We’ve got the health traditions or the

healing traditions within Chinese medicine, and we’ve got the martial traditions. And a lot of the work within Qigong combines these three in some way. I think I’ve never studied a system of Qigong that hasn’t got all three present in some way. And when you put the martial piece in there, then the hierarchy makes sense. But the hierarchies and the secrecy that we see within the traditions don’t make

sense within the healing practice. They don’t make so much sense within the spiritual practice, but they do make sense in the martial practice. Okay, I’ve never seen it like that, but you’ve certainly got a point there. Yes, absolutely. I can see. Yeah. Now that brings us to the starting point where you said that you feel you have to adapt your teachings or the way you are compared to

a Chinese teacher. So let’s explore that a little further, please. Yeah. There was a wonderful conversation I had. Liu and Ling were staying at my house, this was many years ago. And Ling said to me, I need to be better at speaking English so people can understand me more. And I said, I never want you to get better at speaking English because if you speak English really, really

cleanly and really clearly, everybody will think they understand what you’re saying. When you don’t speak good English, everybody’s going, what do they mean? And what it does is it creates a space for us to think about things, a space for us to learn. The same is true. There are studies in texts written in really clean print, like Times New Roman or Courier New, or, you know, one of

these ones compared to something that’s written in one of the flower prints. And looking at the retention levels of the information, and when, weirdly, when it’s more difficult to read, the retention of the information is stronger. Now, as a native English speaker teaching in an English-speaking country, I have the ability to have immense clarity in the way that I speak, and that limits what I’m capable of. You

could always try a sexy French accent or something. Yeah, I could try that one. Yeah, let’s not go there. But I totally get what you’re saying, because at the end of the day, we’ve seen many students participating in workshops with teachers from China where the Chinese teacher doesn’t speak very good English and the student doesn’t understand English very well either. So they basically get very little of the

actual information, but it is more than enough because they’re unconscious. Their mind knows what they need to understand. So even if they make up stuff that is not exactly what the teacher said, it can be extremely helpful and can take them to the next level. While, you know, if we are talking the same level and we are very clear in our language, it means that there is no

space for me to come up with my own ideas. I already know, deep down, because I strictly follow your thoughts rather than enabling me to come up with my own ideas. Right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We’re very caught up, especially around the ideas of teaching. We’re very caught up in process and accuracy. But actually, Qigong is not a practice that you learn. It’s a practice with which you unlearn.

And so we need to create the space to recognize what it is that we want to release. Right, we need to create the space to find our freedom. And everybody’s freedom, everybody’s path to that freedom looks different. So working with someone from outside of our culture immediately opens up perspective. It immediately makes us go, wow, that’s amazing. But working with somebody from within our culture, that’s a different

skill, how to create a space for people to learn. And, you know, these weird things that happen when you run a class. And a tip, if you’re teaching, never ask people what they got from the class. It’s horrible because what happens is you get. One person says, oh, this happened and it was amazing, you know, and I’ve had this situation going on for years and it’s now resolved,

and you have somebody else over here going, I just feel so relaxed. And everybody gives a different answer. And the first time that I did this, I came out of there just feeling completely fried. I just couldn’t cope. How was I going to go in next week and do all of these different things for all of these different people? And then you realize that we don’t. What we

do is we create a safe space for people to find their, their way to freedom. And that’s the piece that I think as Western teachers, we need to continually refine and continually adapt. My name is Leila Cupido and I’m the project manager of the Students Hub. Our team is constantly adding events, teachers, videos, and other resources to take your practice to the next level, improving the quality of

your life and the life of the people around you. We do this work for you, so please use it. Now, how can you do that? I mean, given that you’re not coming from a mysterious country with a mysterious culture like China. You don’t sound Chinese, so immediately there’s a different… yeah, people view you in a different way than a Chinese teacher. So how can you open that space

for people? Now, as a Westerner, I think for me, one of the big tricks is simplicity. One of the pieces that sort of led to the ideas that I have is I spent just over a decade working in the corporate sector with Qigong. Weirdly, not around wellbeing. It was mainly leadership and communication skills. And so some of the clients that you work with are so far away from

what qigong would be. So what you have to do is find a simple way of expressing something that has commonality. So, you need to find ways of being really, really clean and simple in the idea that you’re expressing, and not too detailed. So one of the pieces that you’ll hear me bang on about regularly is my way of viewing Qi. I will always point back to the etymology

of the character, how the actual Chinese character of Qi evolved, and up to about 250 BC. Yeah, about 250 BC. It was simply three lines, and it was vapor rising to form clouds. So that’s mystical, it’s esoteric, it’s beautiful. What does that mean? That means that any invisible force that creates change is Qi. You can’t see the vapor, but you can see the clouds. So then you can

take that idea of Qi as any invisible force that creates change, and you can say, if you look at the trees moving, you can’t see the wind, but you can see the effect of the wind. Therefore, wind is in the category of Qi. You can’t see electricity moving through cables, but you can feel the effect when you hold them. Don’t do that. That’s dangerous. So now what we’ve

done is we’ve created an accessible way into the idea of what Qi is for people, and then we can start to work from that place. And one of the other skills we must have is listening. We must be able to listen to the people. And I don’t mean just with the ears. We must, teaching to me, should always be a dialogue. There’s always interaction between yourself and the

group that you’re leading. And that interaction will also tell you when you have made something too complicated or when you’re just in that pocket of simplicity that people can go, “I’ve never thought of it like that.” That’s helpful. And it’s the same with the practice. Do we want to stick to the standard scripts? I think we need the standard scripts, but we also need to be able to

adapt them to the audience at the time. And I think these are skills that we need to be really, really constantly honing. And is there not a risk? I mean, I’m just putting out that question. If everybody worked like you now and adapts according to his or her own liking, that we’ve got like 15,000 different forms of Qigong, and not all of them are necessarily better, because my

idea of how I would do something isn’t necessarily as refined as it was initially set up by Dr. Pang, who has put a great deal of thought into all of that. So, yeah, I also see a risk. While I love the idea, I see, like, oh, my God, everyone is just doing what they want. How do you see that? Yeah, there is definitely a risk, but at the

same time, somebody described it a bit like jazz. We need to know the thing that we’re improvising on before we can be effective at improvising on it. So the thing that enables us to work in this way is to have both a level of kung fu that means you know where you’re coming from, a level of authenticity within your practice, but also, and probably most importantly of all,

the humility to keep on refining your practice, the humility to keep returning to your core practice, and the humility to go, you know what? I got it wrong. It’s been very interesting. When I first met Jianshe, for some reason, and I’ve got no idea how this happened, the point, the Qihu point, was misplaced in the way that I learned. So I spent a number of years teaching Qihu

as a lung point, which I should have known, and I didn’t. The more I think about it, the more stupid the whole situation seems. And then I found out that I’d done it wrong. So I came into the next class and I said, look, guys, I’m sorry I got this wrong. This is where it is. Let’s practice with this. And the thing that was interesting was that people

turned around and said, it doesn’t feel any different because the intention is still the same, but the physical accuracy, there’s a point that’s useful and a point that it isn’t. So, yeah, there’s, there’s kind of that piece there. But, yeah, absolutely. I believe that we need to have a solid practice that underpins any teaching that we do. And we need to really understand what that practice is. Now,

this is a great topic, a great question you’re raising here, because I know there are kind of two different views in the community. One is, you know, likes to be as detailed and conscious as possible, to do it exactly the right way, which I’m sure has its merits, because there is a reason why this point, you know, the acupuncture point is here and not somewhere else. So why

not use it and press it and push it at the same time? There are some fundamental ideas in Zhineng Qigong that are the core and that are everything, and you don’t even need to do any exercises, you know, if you get the mindset right. So these are the two different views, and I think both have their merits and both are correct in their own very, in their own

way. So, so if I’m, you know, if I was asking these, these questions now, I could totally align with you if, you know, if the understanding of the basic ideas of Zhineng Qigong are in line with what Zhineng Qigong actually is. Okay. Up until 2020, I’d been very reluctant to doing online work. I’ve got my own personal junk around online from my previous career, and I was very

reluctant. And then when we went into lockdown, I was fortunate enough to be promoted by an organization that supports healthcare professionals. So I started having to teach Qigong to healthcare professionals because there was a conversation, and they said, right, let’s go teaching online. I cannot honestly teach accuracy because even if I can demonstrate the move accurately, I’m not big enough on everybody else’s screen for them to see

the detail of what I’m doing. Yeah, and I can’t see what they’re doing. You know, at this point, the class was probably generally about 30 to 40 people, so it was quite a sizable group, but I couldn’t see it. So what’s most important in that space is the intention. And if we look at what happened within Zhineng Qigong, if we look at the idea of the medicine-less hospital,

were the people who went to the medicine-less hospital and practiced in that space able to do 100% accurate form? Is that how they got their recovery? No. There were people in wheelchairs, there were people with limited mobility, there were people who were exhausted, who were bed-bound. We don’t need to have the accuracy to create the effect, but the accuracy is amazing at refining the practice. So every single

movement that we have, the first thing is that we need the body and the mind to be connected with the movement. That’s what makes it Qigong. Then we can go on to refining the accuracy. If we only start with the accuracy, my personal feeling, and please excuse me or email me if I offend, that’s not Qigong, that’s just dance. And I shouldn’t say just dance, I should say

that’s just choreography. It’s just a sequence of movements with the thought that moving in this way is going to actually make a difference. So why is it called Qigong? It’s called Qigong because we put our Qi with it. It’s a body-mind connection. So, yeah, if we look at a single movement, so when you push the hand out and I move back slightly so I don’t look too intimidating,

that means stop, go away, I don’t want you here. If you push with Shen Men, that has got a completely different sense to it. So we can pick up all of these details and refine them within the practice. But it’s a point of refinement. It isn’t a rule that gives you access, from my point of view. Sorry, you really hit the soapbox for me there. So, let’s hear

some other points. You know, where else do you feel we need to adapt as Western teachers? I think the idea of entirety theory is really interesting here as well. I had one of the teachers, Gao, come and stay with me. And as I understand it, Gao was the head of the editorial department at the Huaxia Center. It was a weird series of events that meant he came to

stay at my house. He sat across the table from me and said, “Right, explain entirety theory in three minutes to me.” And I was like, “Oh, I can’t do that. It’s way too complicated, it’s really deep, and it’s really confusing.” And he listened to me, smiled, and said, “Why do you think that?” I pointed to a book on the shelf, The Science of Zhineng Qigong, and said, “Look,

this book, it’s so complicated.” He then said, “Why do you think we call it the science of Qigong?” “I don’t know,” he said. “We called it that so scientists would read it. It’s not complicated. But certain audiences need real complication in order to understand, in order to fit it in, in order to trust. The basic idea is very simple.” So we need to find ways of expressing the

basic ideas that sit within the practice. You know, what is Eoint? And the more you look around, not just within Zhineng Qigong, but also in other traditions, the more you find clues in ways of expressing the ideas. So one of the most beautiful ones that I know is the concept of Eoint, so the concept of true nature or true self. The Indian guru was asked about this, and

his response was, “If you dig a hole, do you think you created the hole? You didn’t. The hole was already there. You just took everything out of it.” Right. And there’s a description of Eoint. Your Eoint is already there. You already have it. You just keep on piling stuff on top of it so you don’t notice it. You know, as far as a simple model goes, I don’t

know anything that can explain it any better than that from my perspective. But that doesn’t come from Zhineng Qigong, that’s come from a parallel practice. And I think that, to me, the parallel practices are really interesting. I’m a Zhineng Qigong practitioner, but I’m a Zhineng Qigong practitioner who’s interested in where the other practices are around certain things, because some of them are so much clearer than we are,

and then others we are far clearer than they are. And different audiences will find those clarities in different places. So, yeah, I think having the ability to understand where things are from different perspectives is really helpful in this. And I don’t think this is in any way disrespectful towards Zhineng Qigong, because even within Zhineng Qigong, as we know, every teacher, every master has a different way of expressing

things. And one thing might click with one teacher and I might never get it with another. I might have heard it 100 times, and just because I’m in a different state today, it might click. So I don’t think this is in any way taking away from Zhineng Qigong. If we use these ideas and these thoughts and these principles from other methods, and because they’re also very well thought

through, it’s not. Yeah, it’s. Yeah, so I get that. I get that. Yeah, yeah. There is a piece here about should we mix systems? I mean, I’ve trained in, I, well, I’ve spent significant time in seven different systems of Qigong, and I’ve qualified to teach in four of those systems. And so, yeah, I was at a point where I was going, oh, I don’t know which one to

do. And actually, what I started to notice was that it’s not the movement itself. You know, if we look at something like Tai Chi Ball, we see the movement of Tai Chi Ball exists within Snake Form Qigong. It exists within Dragon Dao Yin. It exists within, you know, there’s so much imagery, there’s so much within it that is not taught but is common to so many systems. It’s

not the movement that is unique, it’s the idea that’s unique. It’s the theory that is unique within, within Zhineng. And as long as we are circulating around that base theory, I feel as if we’re still able to support people within their Zhineng practice. Right. Don’t pretend that quoting an Indian guru is Zhineng. It’s not. It’s just stepping out slightly and viewing it from a different perspective in order

to strengthen our own understanding, in order to build our own practice. But also don’t think that we, that we own the copyright on everything. As I say, if you Taiji ball is the one I bang on about the most because I’ve studied that in every single system and called it a different name in every single one. And most systems say this is the secret to our practice. Just

like, not a very well-kept secret. What else do you feel should be done differently? When you’re a Western teacher teaching Western groups, is there anything else that comes to mind that you feel is very important for people to understand? I think one of the other things that for me is really fascinating is an understanding of the underpinning philosophies with the. So for me, Taoism is a really fascinating

philosophy, the movement of Buddhism through Chan Buddhism to Zen Buddhism, and the impact of that on China, and also the existence of the Confucian philosophy, which of course has an impact on everything in China. Seeing how those have impacted the systems is really helpful. But more relevant, I think, is understanding the recent history of Qigong and understanding why Zhineng was presented in the way that it was at

the point at which it was presented. And if you look at the needs that were being addressed at that point, so this was the second resurgence of Qigong following the Cultural Revolution, and it was primarily, as I understand it, in order to address healthcare needs within China. Right, which is why it became accessible. Yes, but as I also understand it, the remit of it was that it had

to be health-focused and it had to be scientific and accessible, and, you know, it wasn’t allowed to move into the spiritual space. Now, this arguably is why the issues occurred around Falun Gong, and I don’t want to go there. I don’t know enough to comment on it in a podcast. But what I find interesting is that when people who we teach, who are from other traditions, experience Zhineng

Qigong and we ask them what it is they’ve experienced, they define Qigong not as a healing practice, but as a fully spiritual practice. But the presentation of it to most people is as a healing practice and as a deeply scientific practice. Now, I think that’s fascinating because what we see there is that the potential of the practice covers all bases, but the presentation of the practice within the

culture at the time met the cultural need. So what is the true nature of Zhineng? Is the true nature of Zhineng something that was deeply relevant to China in the 1980s, the late 80s and 90s, or is the true nature of Zhineng something deeper? My sense is that the true nature of Zhineng is something deeper. And my sense is that the way that it was taught in China

in the 90s was deeply relevant to the society at the time. And the way that we’ve seen the Chinese teachers adapt it and the way that other people work with it speak probably more to the true nature of the center of the practice. And again, it’s that piece about what is it that we’re actually adapting, what is the core of the practice. And so I think that becomes

interesting and the understanding of how it works, not only in China. One of the other things I found interesting, working with teachers from all around Europe, and I’ve got a lady from Mexico in my class at the moment who’s talking about the way that they teach in Mexico. Every single culture would teach qigong differently based on the cultural needs and the wording that I’m hearing from other countries.

I’m going, I’ve never heard that before. What does it mean? Tell me, please, is anything that we do pure Zhineng Qigong, or is everything that we do pure Zhineng Qigong? I don’t know. I’m still trying to figure that one out. And, John, as far as I understand, you’ve got a very interesting workshop coming up soon that kind of touches on this topic. Please let us know what this

is about. Yeah. One of the things that has been really interesting to me is when teachers meet on a completely level playing field, it’s quite challenging because as teachers, we’re not necessarily that good at being students. But what we’ve got is this workshop on the 19th, 20th, and 21st of July in Schloss Bucheneck. Excuse my German. I am learning, but I’m very slow at learning. So, in Germany,

we’re meeting as a group of teachers, and we’ve got a framework for the weekend that we’re going to explore ideas like the use of disruption in teaching or the ability to listen more carefully to what’s happening within the Qi Field space. Miriam, Louisa, and myself are running it, and it’s just an open invitation. If you’re teaching and you’d like to spend time with other teachers, or if you’re

interested in teaching and want to know what it’s all about and want to come along and play, come along and play. But do expect to be asked to lead small groups, and yeah, expect to come along and have fun and maybe break a few rules. I’m all about breaking rules. I think we heard that in the podcast, so we got that. We’re putting a link in the show

notes, so everyone who is a teacher or is interested in getting together with teachers, learning from each other, and challenging each other, please participate, have a look at what’s offered there, and then hopefully, somehow, our listeners will join you guys. I know that you’re very knowledgeable about all these things, and while we were talking, many new ideas came up for more episodes. But I think this has been

lovely to see you today, John, and very insightful, your thoughts on that. Many things resonate with me, and many, many things make me think because I’ve also got my view, obviously, and you kind of opened my eyes to what you’re saying. I said, yeah, that sounds very interesting. He’s got a point there. So thank you very much for sharing that with us and the community, and we will

obviously leave your details in the show notes. You’re a very experienced teacher. I know you offer a lot of courses and workshops, so there are possibilities for people to get in touch with you and learn from you. I can only encourage everyone to reach out and benefit from all that you know and the man that you are. As we know, ways of being are the most important in

all of that. You mentioned the word authenticity, but it’s just the man that you are that already creates healing and progress for people, simply by being in your presence. So thank you very much for joining me today. We trust you enjoyed this conversation, and we invite you to subscribe to our podcast so we can stay in touch and notify you of future episodes. We will end today’s episode

with the Eight Verses Meditation, performed by Zhineng Qigong teacher Katrien Hendrickx. Enjoy. To get your free eBook on the Eight Verses Meditation, please check the show notes below.