Welcome to the Zhineng Qigong Community Podcast, Wisdom Qigong Uncovered. My name is Torsten Lueddecke, and this is today’s story. Far too often do we see the body as a problem, something that needs to be fixed because it is broken, something we need to act upon because we want to tackle a disease. But my guest today, Mary Morrison, suggests viewing the body as a wise teacher. No matter the
symptoms or the disease, the body has a message for you. Let your body become a tool for leadership. That is what today’s conversation is about. She studied Chinese medicine, acupuncture, and she’s combining all of that into her practice, where she helps people all over the world, online and offline, to get in touch with what’s going on in their lives, what’s happening in their lives, and to heal through
that knowledge. And the theme for today is the wisdom of the body. Because that is something, Mary, that you believe is an important thing to listen to. Maybe you want to explore a little bit about what that means to you. Oh, yes. Thank you, Torsten, for having me. It’s delightful to be in your presence. And so, yeah, wisdom of the body. That’s a curious statement, isn’t it? Because
in my experience, after over 13 years of being in acupuncture, and then of course the five years of studying with Master Liu and Britta in Zhineng Qigong, so there is. I have been trained to look at the body as a wise teacher rather than the current pair or the Western medical paradigm, where the body is seen as a problem. So that’s a completely different worldview, the body, that
the body is wise. And so that is my work in the world, to have people see their body as a brilliant, absolutely brilliant design. Right. It’s, it’s, it’s, you know, you cut yourself, your body starts healing right away. So it’s really in a, there is an abundance of redesigned wellness built in. It’s like you come pre-programmed, pre-designed when you’re born into this life, with a body that’s brilliantly
designed. And I think in modern, you know, modern life, the modernization of life over the hundreds, thousands of millennia that it’s, we’ve been told that the body’s a problem. Experience the body as. I don’t know what’s going on. I need to, you know, go to the doctor and, absolutely, yes, that is still the case. I don’t ever talk anybody out of doing that, but I get curious about,
huh, what do you know about your symptoms? Like, what do you do? Do you want to learn about how your symptoms could be teaching you about how to live life differently? Is that a possibility? And so that’s, that’s basically where I start with people, but the last two years I’ve been pulling it out of the wellness community and applying it toward leadership because I have a background as
a business professional and I have an MBA, a master’s in business social responsibility. Like how to do good through business, how to make your corner of the world a better place, whether it’s your community you start with, your family, your community. If you have a passion project or if you want to build a business that lifts other people up, that’s who I love working with because we need
more of that type of business. Based on what’s happening all around the world, a lot of conflict, and conflict starts though in the body first, a human body first, before it scales up to what we see now all over the world. So if I can get at the genesis or the beginning of what do you notice about your body, like what are the symptoms you’re noticing? What are
the wisdom teachers your body is showing you that you notice? Can we start there? So, basically, I mean, we’re all aware of the self-healing ability of the body. When you adjust, as you explained, when you cut yourself, the body does whatever it needs to do to heal itself. Now when you cut yourself, it might just be an accident, nothing to worry about, no bigger idea behind that. But
what you’re talking about is more, it’s not just the healing ability. What you’re also saying is that if you have any discomfort or any disease or any illness, that is a message from the body; the body is wise enough to want to communicate something to you. Do I understand that correctly? That is correct. And even when we have an accident. Right, right. That’s very human. And could it,
could we just get curious about, whoa, what was I doing? Like, did I have, so I… There’s usually a moment, like if you think about something you did and then you hurt yourself or jammed your finger. You know, something benign, but perhaps maybe a minute before that happened, or a moment, you had this sensation that says, oh, maybe I should stop. But for whatever reason, valid or otherwise,
you didn’t. And now your finger’s bleeding or whatever. Right. That’s what I’m talking about. Like, there’s a lot of things, many things, maybe everything, that doesn’t come out of the blue necessarily. Maybe it comes out of oblivion or not being aware. So if we can use our capacity as human beings, because we do have it, we have this immense capacity to, like, how is, what is your… How
do you, how do you know how? That’s my question. Always, I’m interested in how you know when to pull back and go, I need to rest for a moment because I actually might hurt myself. But then what’s the sensation that says, actually, no, I’m fine, I’m going to keep going? Like, what is that? So it’s a very nuanced conversation and practice that I have people do. And I
have 12 skills. I call them skills because you’ve got to practice them for them to work. But they work pretty quickly, and they’re pretty sustainable to keep up. They’re very sustainable because they’re very simple. Simplicity in my world is elegant and powerful. Too complex, you know, people won’t do it. They like to think, oh, I’ll do it, but if it’s too complex, someone will not do it. The
Qigong movement, right? We keep it very simple, for example. Right, right. So the practice skills that I have people pay attention to their body, not interpret it, though we get into like, well, I, my shoulder is tight because of blah, blah, blah. Well, let’s suspend that and just notice. When do you tighten your shoulders? The body’s wise, right? The tightening is wisdom. What are you, what are you
resisting? Like, what are you tightening to? Could you still do what you need to do and not tighten and relax? Because a lot of people don’t notice. I notice, but it’s no good for me to notice and you not notice. Like, that’s unsustainable healthcare as far as I’m concerned. Yeah. And not leadership either, because I was just writing a blog post. Everybody’s a leader. People who were like,
I’m not a leader. What do you mean? I’m not like… But you are, because you are leading your life, right? You’re likely leading a family, right? It could be two or more people, kids. You are a leader. But we have, as we were talking earlier, terrible examples of leaders out there. Right? That’s… We don’t have really good modeling for what I say leadership really is, which is the
ability to lift and guide others. So they lift not only themselves up, but other people with them. So, so what I’ve understood so far is the topic of awareness. So what you’re saying is that now, once the shoulder, you know, tenses up, are you aware of what’s going on? Are you aware that you did that? Right. And what else is happening at that moment? So, yeah. What’s going
on around you? Like, where? The questions I ask are like, can you notice some, like, when’s the last time you were upset? I call it upset, meaning not necessarily angry, but any type of resistance. Oh, I don’t like that someone, you know, my client is late, or my dog is barking, or traffic is heavy. Like, any moment of like, I’m in a fight with the world right now
as it is. Right. That’s kind of like a waste of time and Qi. Right. It is how it is. Right. And we tend to resist. Very common. Again, not a problem. It’s just noticing that I do it is the first skill, because the more you notice, you’ll, it kind of dawns on people like, oh, no wonder I’m not sleeping well. I’m like, kind of upset at so many
different things. And I, by the end of the day, may be exhausted, but I can’t fall asleep because there’s not just one upset a day, but there’s, I actually call them Qi leaks. Qi leaks that are like, oh, that doesn’t really bother me most of the time, but it’s still enough. It’s still enough of a leak where, you know, Qi flows where attention goes. Even if it’s only
like 5%, you’re still kind of leaking. So the practice is, is eventually once you have these awareness practices that you practice, then we start with, like, well, how do you use the newfound awareness, the shoulder tension, to then untense? But we don’t jump to the solution right away because, honestly, I want you to notice and notice so you can see, oh, wow, I really do spend a lot
of time tightening and tightening and tightening. My name is Leila Cupido and I’m the project manager of the Students Hub. Our team is constantly adding events, teachers, videos, and other resources to take your practice to the next level, improving the quality of your life and the life of the people around you. We do this work for you, so please use it. And then, there’s something else I picked
up, yeah, which I think is worth noting that you said, don’t jump to a conclusion. Don’t jump to an interpretation. Right. So what, what are you suggesting instead? What am I supposed to do with this information? Okay, I noticed my shoulder is tensing up. So what is the next step? Yeah, yeah. So the 12 skills, you know, they all have a workbook and a thing, right, to walk
people through. But it’s not even necessary because what I offer people is moment to moment in the areas that matter to you in life. So it’s not everything, but in the areas that matter to you, like relationships, family, or work, you notice some tension. We eventually get to practices too. Okay, so maybe I’m telling a story or I’m interpreting the sensation or what I’m experiencing as, like, this
is how it is, which is tight, right? If I, well, I’m tensing my shoulders, Mary, because so and so’s a jerk.. Well, notice your body as you say that. If you’re like, oh, it’s tight, I mean, you may be right. Right? There’s no argument there, but it’s the fact that you tense when you say that. So guess what? Is it useful? Maybe there’s another story or interpretation here
that would soften you or relax your shoulders in the moment. And how could we? So reframing a situation is kind of a skill that I teach. You’ve, you’re, we’re storytellers. Right? We’re humans. Right? But are you even aware of the story you’re telling about the thing you’re upset with? Because, go ahead. So, sorry about that. No, this is something, you know, that I kind of get now. So
I choose a different story, and then I can also choose to relax my shoulder, for example. Yeah, well, exactly. You can. You can. Because here’s the interesting kind of paradox with what I teach, or not even teach, I guide. I’m a guide. I mean, because I trust you. Like, Torsten, you’ve been in that body for a long time. You have a, you are skilled. And I treat everybody
with high respect because you’ve been living in your body. You know it the best. And there are likely some practices you do. They’re very effective. But what I hone in on is like, just a little, little nuanced thing that I’m observing as I’m listening to you tell me why you’re upset with X, Y, and Z, and then I just get really curious and I ask you to do
the same. It’s like, huh, that story about, you know, your neighbor. Huh, okay, well, is that upset making a difference? I usually get to people, they’re like, is it because you’re creating all this sensation? And then, now what do you, is it worth being right about the story you’re telling about your neighbor who’s playing loud music, for example? You get to decide. That’s the thing. It’s like you
get to decide if that’s being upset. So rather than run over upset and pound on the door, you could say, well, maybe, I don’t know, I tell people to make up a silly story. Like, you can tell any story you want because you do anyway. But the point is though, do you know you’re telling the story that’s generating the tension? Because if you could see, really, really, really
get that. Because we have to unwind some. I have to unwind somebody’s story about how they’re living. So it’s deep work in the sense of like, we bring all of our life’s experience to this moment right now. So I’m asking you to do something radical, which is to suspend the judgment and go, well, I notice I am tight and my jaw’s tight, and I’m saying that they don’t
care about me. There’s sound, I’ve got to work, right? So people are like, well, I’m just going to go over there and handle it. But you’re going to go over there in a tense body. You’re going to perpetuate the Qi of your tension over there. You’re going to spill it over there instead, right? And this is getting like, this is, this one exercise doesn’t happen until like 7
or 8 because there are 12 of them. So I don’t have you jump to this, right? But as a quick thing for everybody listening: is like, if you have an upset with somebody, could you relax your body first? Could you notice, oh, this shoulder tension, this jaw tightening isn’t useful? It’s not helping. And likely if I were to put a cuff around my arm, my blood pressure would
be up, right? This is how we create sickness and we don’t realize it. This is the genesis of upset, which is optional. If you’re going to be upset, let’s find a worthy cause to be upset about, because there are plenty in the world, not your neighbor, who you don’t even know, and might be hard of hearing. You have no idea. Like, what if you know they’re celebrating a
win, something really important, and it’s only going to be for a few minutes? Like, so there’s a ton of stories. You could reframe the whole situation to help you generate relaxation and go, you know what? I’m not going to spend my life force, my energy, focused on tightening my body. That’s not helping. That’s actually creating the conditions for a disease state, I say, and then go spread it
next door. No, I’m not going to do that in the world. I’m committed because I have a commitment in the world that in my presence you experience calm and peace. Then that’s another factor. It’s like, what are you committed to in the world now? But now, if somebody comes to you and it’s not the tense shoulder and they feel stressed, but say the whole thing is on a
different stage already and they’ve developed a serious illness, which you can’t ignore. But yeah, if it’s something serious, like, I’ve got a liver problem, I’ve got a heart issue, or cancer, or something like that, how do you use the wisdom of the body to take them backwards, resolve whatever needs to be resolved so that this illness disappears? Well, I don’t even do that. I mean, I’m clear still
with these labeled diseases that Western medicine hands us. Yes. It’s like how. My question is, well, okay, so this is, this is what’s so right. This is more of this, like, okay, I’m not going to fight this. This is what I’m dealing with. These are the test results. These are my symptoms. So my question I begin with is like, I’m not here to fix you. You’re not. Because
fixing, I actually say, fixing has been part of the problem with Western medicine. Because fixing doesn’t involve a co, a partnership, like. And it gets back to the question, if someone has come to me, and someone recently did with Parkinson’s, how are we going to live now? From birth. Right. From birth to death. But really, from right now until you die, how do you want to live in
this body, given all the labels that you’ve been given in the test results? Because I know when I’m in a relaxed body, the body actually has an opportunity to regulate. Right. In a tense body, inflammation. Right. We. I. That’s how I think of it. Like, inflammation is wise and there’s different, there’s body inflammation, but there’s also organizational inflammation. And that’s where we get back to leadership. Like, where
are you inflaming? Like, where are you spreading heat in your organization? Inflammation, though, is rushing around your busy life, not aware of the impacts of your rushing, which is, to me, a visible form of inflammation. So back to someone with a serious illness, they’re not a problem to be fixed. They have to. I really start with them as like, well, what if you didn’t get any worse? Would
that be, is that a good goal? Like, it’s really taking each person one by one and saying, I have a set of skills. I can teach you to really relax and calm yourself so you can be clear-headed about the decisions you do have to make about your health, the surgeries you are coming up. I worked with somebody recently who realized she was on medication that was driving up
her blood pressure, and then she had to take another medication for some other side effect. But she, she realized, I don’t want to be on any of these medications because it’s not for me to say for them to be on it. I’m not living their life. You’ve got to do what you’ve got to do. But like, how are you making that decision? Are you making it in a
tent? Could we get you to relax and then choose? That’s really what’s important. That’s where your power is. Noticing that I’m like tensing, oh, I have a choice now. If I choose out of tension, there’s going to be a ripple effect. There’s going to be a weight behind that boat you’re driving called your life. And if I… That’s probably the opposite of what people usually do when they
get a diagnosis. It’s very scary. It’s totally like, it’s no I. It’s really challenging to be clear-headed when you’re afraid. And I have so much sympathy and empathy for that because I’ve been very sick myself and luckily I had somebody asking me, well, how do you want to navigate this boat? Do you want to do it out of fear or do you want to just kind of see
what your choices are, but from a calm, relaxed body choose? I’m definitely even in kind of what we consider the worst diagnoses. All diagnoses are a set of like symptoms, right, kind of lumped together. And you have this right or you have that. But still, I use my Chinese medicine and go, well, it’s more than the box. It’s like the label cancer or Parkinson’s or whatever, your body’s
still wise. Could that be true? Right. And then how do we, from this moment forward, how do we… How do you want to live life? Because I think quality of life and how people want to live, they do have agency in that. But like, this one person with this… She had this arrhythmia diagnosis, and she’s like, I think it’s the blood pressure medication. So we just kind of…
she did come to me for wellness. She wasn’t coming to me for leadership. So I’m kind of… I can kind of pull out and really help guide people. But in her personal leadership, I think we’ve abdicated that a lot. With Western medicine, we hand it over to the person with a stethoscope and say, they know more about me. No, no, you know more about you. You just need
a guide to remind you of your wisdom. But she was like, what do I do? I said, well, what… Like, notice your body when you think about your different decisions. And she chose the path very calmly. Now she’s not on any medication. She can always go back to them, but her blood pressure’s naturally low now. For arrhythmia, it doesn’t exist anymore. It’s needed to work. And I think
that brings us back to what you initially said. You know, we started with a simple example of cutting your finger. The body knows how to heal. That is the wisdom of the body. I think our job is, if I may, to go to the separation here. Our role of the mind is to allow the body to heal. And in order to allow it to heal, we have to
make sure, you know, we are calm, we are relaxed, because the moment we stress, there’s no way the body can do its work because it’s all on survival mode. So it doesn’t do the necessary repairs; it’s a lot harder, for sure. Yeah, there we go. And so, the best thing you can do is trust your body, that it knows what it means to be healthy, what it means
to improve, what it means to do whatever needs to be done. But do you have to give the body permission? You can only do this by de. Stressing, by being calm, by taking charge again, by coming from a relaxed, calm place just as you described. And I think that is where, in an indirect way, you are supporting people to let the body do the work that it has
to do. Is that a fair way to say it, or did I get something wrong here? Yeah, no, that’s it. And I’ll add the connection of, like, every thought you think, every thought you think your body, like people say mindset. And I’m like, maybe that’s a good start. But there’s no thought separate from the body. There’s no emotional reaction separate from the physical. That’s Western medicine. That’s like
the thoughts of noticing. Oh, I have this thought about my boss. Notice your body. How did you do that? And it’s always like, huh? How did I do what? You thought of your boss. And your shoulders tensed. Oh, yeah. But like, kind of like, so what? But it’s like, well, you just told me your shoulders hurt. It doesn’t dawn on people because we’ve been trained out of being
in our body. Right. When we’re little, we’re kind of like very much more open and. Right. Because when we’re little, our brain hasn’t developed. There’s a lot of development yet to come. But culturally, I like to help people design a really thriving culture. But it starts with your internal culture. Are you observing? The thoughts are so connected to the body that when you think something that matters to
you, of course. Do you, in that moment, get immediate feedback? Am I tensing? Well, that’s interesting. Could you be curious? That’s my big message for everyone. Could you be curious about your symptoms? Because when I say that, Torsten, I feel this opening. Like, curious isn’t just a word. I’m using it intentionally. When I say that my shoulders, it’s kind of like, because you can see me on Zoom,
it’s like, ah. It’s kind of like the world seems a little bit bigger, not so narrow, huh? Could I be curious about my shoulder? I had one person say, well, I can’t sleep at night. It gets me so angry. I’m like, does that help? No. I said, well, have you ever heard about two sleeps? Our ancestors, apparently, a lot would, you know, have to keep the fire burning.
We didn’t have, you know, HVAC systems to heat and cool our homes. Right? So somebody had. Somebody had to keep the fire going at night, keep a watchful eye on animals or other intruders. So we only slept for a few hours and would wake up and, right, and then we might have something to eat. But somehow, in modern society, I think with the industrial revolution and factories, we
wanted people to believe, like, we insisted, well, get enough sleep. So many hours straight through, so you can get up and go to the factory and get the work done. So I say, listen, sleep doesn’t have to look like what you think it looks like. The main thing is, do you feel rested in the morning? Right? That’s really kind of the indicator. We use these watches a lot,
right? These Apple watches and these Fitbits to tell us about our sleep. You’re a Fitbit from head to toe. I mean, you’ve already got the design. So I’m an advocate of like, yeah, get your fancy gadgets. But it’s kind of, it’s, it’s… I’ll be like, how’s your sleep? And people are like, well, wait a minute, let me look. And I’m like, wow. Right? But see, that’s normalized now,
Torsten. That’s the thing. It’s like we can laugh at it, but people are like, huh. They don’t realize they’ve kind of allowed themselves to be taken over by technology. Technology, I believe, can be very supportive of living a full and vital life. But we shouldn’t abdicate our wholesale to the technology to give us feedback. It happens so easily. I mean, I’m totally guilty. When I want to know
what the weather is, I don’t look out the window, I look at my watch. Absolutely, right? Yes. Yeah. It’s always like, you can use both. But your body—I mean, the thing about these skills and why they work so effectively and pretty quickly is that you bring your body everywhere you go. Wouldn’t it be cool if you actually learned how to use it as a barometer? Right? Because I
feel like that’s part of living a full life: realizing, oh, I do have a choice here. I do have a choice because my symptoms, like, yes, you’re going to have symptoms of joy, symptoms of happiness—I love that. Symptoms called gratitude. Great. But that’s not why people are sick. They’re sick because there may be some things undistinguished that you maybe have a sense of, but you don’t have anybody
to really talk to about it or guide you through it. Right? And that’s what I do. I can do it in the wellness coaching, but what I’m really doing is, like, if you’re a leader, you want to learn how to be what leaders could be. Again, as I said earlier, can I know myself, make my own decisions, take in all the data, kind of think about all my
options, and notice my tension, whether it’s less or more? So I’m not going to choose that because it feels too tight, you know? You can kind of run a thought or a choice through your body and know, oh, I feel more spacious when I think about that. I’m going to go down that way. That’s your power, right? Because it comes down to you living your life and affecting
other people. My original teacher would say, don’t you dare—if you’re upset, go in the closet. Because we don’t keep our upsets to ourselves. We literally infect everybody around us. It’s like the Qi Field. Do you know that you’re infecting it? So don’t go over to your neighbor upset. Truly, really, deeply calm yourself. Not superficial, because you’ll know when you’re BSing your way through it. It’s like you have
that internal barometer that says, okay, I’m calm right now, and now I can clearly think about how to deliver. Hey, you know, I can hear your music. Just wanted to let you know, I’ve got a call coming up. Is there a way we can work out when you could blast your music and I could have my call without hearing it through Zoom? Wait, you’re in partnership? More so
when you design it. But in order to design partnership, for example, Calm Body is extremely useful. Right? So I think this brings us to the bridge of healing yourself, dealing with whatever you need to deal with, and the impact it has on relationships and the outside world. And I know from what you’ve said in the introduction that this is about affecting your friends, your family, and your workspace.
And so is that something you would address in your conversations with your clients, or is that basically just a natural consequence of the work that you’re doing? Yeah, well, people come to me because a lot of people still know me as a Qigong teacher or acupuncturist. And I still do all those things. I still teach online for Qigong, and I still do Qi Therapy and all that stuff.
And what I really have come to realize is that part of who I am is a guide. So you can come to me with pretty much anything because of my extensive training and ongoing training in Chinese medicine. Um, it’s kind of a unique perspective on what’s worldview, right? That everything’s connected. We all affect each other. Do you even know? But I, I think I’m pivoting. I am pivoting
more to the coaching and consulting because I want you to wake up. I want you to know that you matter. You matter so much that you can affect your health and the health of other humans around you. And I want you to realize that and not feel bad about it. That would be common too. But, like, instead of feeling bad about it, could we use it as a
pointer? There’s like, what do you really want to do? So people can come to me with a health issue, a relationship issue, whether personal or work, or they want to start a business because I have a business background and see if, like, and I really want to talk to people who are like, I really want to create a water system. Like, they really have an idea for a
business. And they’re like, but how am I going to be able to do that? Because I’ve been sick a lot. A lot of times, that’s what people come to me with. But I’ve not been feeling well, yet I have this vision. So I’m like, oh, that’s interesting. Yeah, let’s take a look at how—that’s happening. So then you can do your work in the world much more calmly, so
it doesn’t… I tell people, it’s like, I don’t know about you, but I used to be— I used to be a big napper, but it wasn’t necessarily because I was checking out. I’d had a hard day. Oh, I need to go take a nap. Not a problem, I love naps. But I realized it was an escape, right? And the problem was still there when I woke up. So
I realized, oh, a lot of what people, how they kind of deplete themselves or leak Qi, is they don’t have that unpleasant conversation, or they don’t say what they really want to say, right? And so we hold onto it, and then we create all these symptoms, right? Jaw tightening or whatever. So what I decided is, like, my coach was saying, okay, napping is fine, not a problem. But
just check out and see if it’s, if it is, like, are you avoiding something? Handle the avoidance. And what I did is I found, oh, I don’t need a nap. Like, it was like, I need a nap. I don’t need it. I can choose napping for the joy of it, right? And at the end of the day, I’m not exhausted anymore. I’m not carrying other people’s stuff. I
decided that my work in the world is to free your Qi, but also not take on your stuff either. And so I have way more built capacity of, like, you know, I wish for you deep peace and calm as you move about the world, because I know how much you matter and you have important work to do, but you’ve got to do the work, right? You’ve got to,
like, like, like, my wish would be for people to go, oh, Qigong is so powerful. But be careful not to use it as the fix, though, because when you can, when someone calmly comes and says, “I want to learn Qigong,” they learn faster. They’re more interested. Like, they’re there, right? I bet someone who’s like, ah, it’s… they don’t stay in the program, or they, like… it’s really important
that people go, I want to choose something because I see what’s possible for people when I teach them these, right? It’s from a body of, like, ooh, you know, clients are easy to get. Students are easier to enroll when it’s from this possibility. Body, not, you’ve got to come in this tight, right? So it’s unlimited what you can do with the skills, because it’s… it’s so. Everybody, we
tense. It’s a fact. Tension, so upset, is a fact. It’s what you, the story you tell about the facts, is where the dis.. Ease comes in, and I want to help people go, oh, let’s shift that. I think that is a wonderful closing word, and it sums up very nicely the work that you do. And so I want to thank you for this interview, taking time to talk
to us, and I can see that there are many other issues that you touched upon that I would love to explore further. So maybe there is a second or a third episode that we can do together in the future. Thank you very much. Mary, this was very enlightening, and I wish you luck with your work. I’ve known you for many years, so I know you’re a very capable
practitioner, and obviously, all the contact details are in the show notes. So if anybody would like to get in touch, they can do so and work with you to create this beautiful leadership that you are promoting here. Thank you so much, Torsten. I’m honored to have spent this time with you. Thank you, Mary. We trust you enjoyed this conversation, and we invite you to subscribe to our podcast
so we can stay in touch and notify you of future episodes. We will end today’s episode with the Eight Verses Meditation, performed by Zhineng Qigong teacher Katrien Hendrickx. Enjoy. To get your free eBook on the Eight Verses Meditation, please check the show notes below.
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