David and Helena Petrović were about to give up on Qigong, as they no longer enjoyed the practice, nor did they see substantial results. At that time, they happened to receive an invite from a master where they experienced Qigong in an entirely different way. And from that moment on, miracles happened. My name is Torsten Lueddecke, and this is the Wisdom Qigong podcast. And it’s kind of a premiere for
us because we’ve got two people in the podcast at the same time. And yes, David and Helena are both very active Zhineng Qigong practitioners. I know David has been a teacher in Zhineng Qigong for a long time. We have lots of interesting things to share here. Today, you guys are both based in Croatia, and as far as I know, David, you started Zhineng Qigong many, many years ago,
and then you kind of stopped. Maybe you want to describe your first experience and, you know, what brought you to Zhineng Qigong initially and then what made you stop before you retook your practice? We both started together in 2002. And since 2002, when I started practicing, I studied with the same teacher. But after many years, I didn’t really see results. At that time, I had bad asthma, and
it didn’t go away. On the contrary, the condition was getting worse. Also, this teacher’s method of practice and teaching was quite rigid. He was an excellent teacher and person, but most of the people who came to training didn’t suit this rigid approach. With time, I said it wasn’t good for me, and I decided to move away. I continued to practice on my own, but over time, less and
less. And at one point, I thought of quitting Zhineng Qigong completely. Yes. And when I stopped practicing and thinking about Zhineng Qigong, suddenly an email came with an invitation to a workshop with Master Liu in Slovenia from Andraž. Andraž sent this email, and Helena and I decided to go and try again. And it was a completely new and different experience of Zhineng Qigong. Everything was much, much easier
and had a completely different approach. And I fell in love with Zhineng Qigong again and decided to dedicate myself to it again. Now, the exercises that you learned, I assume it’s the same thing with the old teacher, where you kind of lost interest and felt it wasn’t really working for you. And what Master Liu is teaching, we are all teaching the Lift Qi Up – Pour Qi Down
method, La Qi, Three Centers Merge, Wall Squats, et cetera. So I think the exercises are the same now. What makes the difference that suddenly you felt like, wow, this is for me, and this is so, so different? Although it’s the same exercises, compared to previous experiences, it was completely different. Everything was much more relaxed, easier, more casual, and more adapted to the capabilities of participants and to our
European mentality. Because we have a different way of seeing practice, and we are more focused on relaxation and comfort. And are you also saying that, you know, after you rediscovered Zhineng Qigong, that your health improved? Because you said, you know, you had the feeling it wasn’t really working for you in the first phase of Zhineng Qigong. Now, after you visited the workshop with Andraž and Master Liu, did
you then see any change in your health situation? Yes, yes, I see. My health is much, much better. Great. And your asthma? And my asthma also. Yes. Okay, good. Now, Helena, if I understand correctly, you’ve been on the same journey. So you also joined with the first master in 2002 or 2004; I forgot the exact time. And did you have the same experience? Did you also feel like
this is interesting? Because obviously, you followed up, but then at one point did you lose interest in the same way as David, or was it a different experience for you? I was practicing, but not so deeply and regularly as David. I was not so disciplined, so not as much involved. But I was involved, and I really respect our ex-teacher. I even wanted to make contact again, but it
didn’t work out. So when we went to Master Liu’s workshop, at first, I was very skeptical. And then slowly, I started to like it, and I was practicing regularly again. I’ve seen differences in his health, in my health, and in our surroundings. So I’m now more in than ever. Right, right. And I love when you say now that you really respect your first teacher. Because I think it
is important for all of us to understand that there is not necessarily one teacher doing it better than another. It’s just that some teachers and some teaching methods resonate more with one person, and other methods resonate more with others. With other people. So your teacher, your first teacher, might have been hugely successful with other students because they kind of are aligned with his method of teaching. While Master
Liu, then again, reaches people like you and me, where we feel like, wow, this is great. This is something. This is actually enjoyable. It’s fun, it’s uplifting. I can see results very quickly. But I also noticed from the community that other people prefer another master. Master Jianshe is very popular, Master Chen, Master Wei, so that’s… I think everybody kind of finds a teacher where it resonates most and
says, this is my kind of teaching style that works best for me. So I think it’s great that you mentioned this point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is important. It is good to have an inside impulse, but also someone from outside who can motivate us and correct in a way that is harmonious for both. Right, right. Wonderful. And I, as far as I know, since you went back
into Zhineng Qigong, and I think, David, you started teaching again, your practice really took off. I mean, you’ve got some incredible work that you are doing now. And I’d like to hear a little bit about that because if I have the right information here, you’re working, for example, with one group of students that most other teachers would say, wow, this is a difficult task. Now, people that suffer
from schizophrenia, right? Yes, yes. I work with patients with schizophrenia in a city hospital, and we practice one day a week for half an hour, and the results are really, really great. First of all, please explain what you’re doing in this training because I think it’s a little more difficult for these students to focus for a long time. Right, so how are you adapting your training for this
group of people? We do simple things, Qi Squats, a little bit of La Qi, which they can’t do because they don’t have good concentration, and some simple movements from Tai Chi, collecting Qi and these simple things. All right, and you say you have good results, so how do you know you’ve got good results? The mentor who is with them every day says that the reduction of negative symptoms
is evident. He’s with them every day, and he knows each person in this group very, very well. They said that they are less depressed, communicate more with each other, have improved coordination and motor skills, and have reduced side effects of drugs. We have a way you can discover Qigong. So at the Zhineng Qigong Students Hub, we know that understanding Qigong is very important and also that Zhineng Qigong
in itself has various nuances that people can’t easily comprehend. So we’ve approached it in the style of a video game. On this page, discover Qigong. You can select your character, so you can either be a beginner, a practitioner, a holistic healer, or a self-healer. When you click on your character, it takes you to these different sections. In these sections, you can explore the nuances, and when you click
on a card, all of the resources pop up. We’ve made it really fun, and not many people know about it. So if you are interested, have a look and discover Qigong. I think this is amazing because it kind of covers all aspects of one’s life. Yeah, you’ve got the mental aspects where you say the depression is getting far less. You’ve got the physical aspects when you say the
motor skills of their movements are much improved. You’ve got the social impact when you say they communicate more with each other. So it is a great contribution to their social life. Then they can even handle other medication better because the body seems to be able to transform this information in a more positive way. I think this is incredible because you’re really doing limited work there. If you think
of the Huaxia Center, now the first medicine-less hospital where Dr. Pang taught, they were basically practicing 24 hours a day, and you have these students for half an hour a week, and you do simple exercises, and yet you create these amazing results. So I think that’s also a good example of, I mean, the reason why Dr. Pang started with Chineng Qigong was he said, “I need something that
is fast and effective because the people I’m working with usually have serious problems. So I can’t do a long-term difficult strategy here. I need something that’s working fast and effectively.” What you’re doing there, I think, is in the best tradition. You’re doing something relatively simple for everybody to be able to understand and to do. And you’ve got these incredible results, so congratulations on that. Thank you. Thank you.
How did you get the hospital agreeing, you know, that you work with these patients? Because I know that many, many traditional Western institutions are often reluctant; they rely on their Western ideas of medicine and are often reluctant to allow someone in who is an alternative health practitioner like you. David was invited; I was invited by this lady who is the mentor of these people. They are in a
working group daily, at the hospital. They only come there to stay through the day and go back home. She invited me to work with them, and the hospital gave the space where we can do this. Yes, agreed. Okay, I can be there in the hospital. And yes, this lady works in the hospital. She’s very active with that kind of population and very helpful to them. So she invited
David to be a participant in this work too. I wish we had many people in responsible positions like that who are so open and are a good example of how to integrate Western ways of dealing with these problems with alternative ways because we can clearly see it’s benefiting everyone and making such a difference. So I’m glad. Say hello to this lady; I think she’s doing a great job
here. I know that David is the Zhineng Qigong teacher, but you are also an avid practitioner and you also have great healing skills. And you, the other day, spoke about your mother who had a serious problem and how both of you worked with her to get her back on track. Maybe you want to share that with us. Yes. My mother had two strokes, one after another, with COVID
and severe pneumonia at the same time. And she was in a very bad state. She couldn’t talk, walk, or breathe. She was taken to the hospital by emergency immediately, and we were sending her energy all the time. She was out of the hospital in 12 days, which was a miracle by itself. And when she came back home, on the second evening at home, she started walking with a
cane, and for me, it was another miracle. And after that, she started attending David’s Zhineng Qigong courses online because she wasn’t ready yet to go out of the house. For the first few months, she was just sitting in the Qi Field. After a few months, she started to do exercises and increasing the time of exercising. After one year, she was able to do one hour and a half
of workouts without a stop. And now she walks normally, talks normally, and her health is excellent for her age, and she practices regularly. So wonderful. I’m glad for you guys. Well done. It must be just beautiful for you to know that you could do this for such a close member of your family, your mother and your mother-in-law. So congratulations on that. Thank you. And from a, from a,
from a. An interesting point and interesting in learning. There is also, yeah, because now you’re adding something new to the picture. When your mother was in such difficult problems, she didn’t do the Zhineng Qigong; you basically did it for her. So, well, you were using what we would call, you know, Hunyuan Qi Therapy. You used methods to help her get better, and that was obviously so successful that
she then took it on herself. So now she’s in the position of doing the work herself. Now she can exercise and practice and take responsibility for her health. But you’ve also shown that Zhineng Qigong is not just something I can use for my own health; I can use it for the people around me. And I’m so glad because both of you are joining the Hunyuan Qi Therapy program,
which is exactly doing that, you know, teaching people in the West the methods of the first medicine-less hospital so that you can apply them with people in your life or, you know, with students or patients. You have, if you are a health practitioner. And that brings me to another point, Helena, because when we talk about what you did there, you created a Qi field basically for her of
energy that was a healing Qi field. And I know that your main job or your main profession is not in Zhineng Qigong; you are actually doing. I do facilitate neo-shamanic workshops. Neo-shamanic rituals and processes, which are very, very similar from the outside to family constellations. But the approach is a little bit different. We don’t talk much; sometimes we move a lot with rhythm and voice included. And because
from a shamanic perspective, the higher self we seek is not one individual self, but a deeper collective, evolutionary self. In this work, I also create the field in my own way. But when David is in the process and when he creates the Zhineng Qigong field, it becomes much stronger, and the results are immediately visible. Yes. That’s amazing. That’s amazing. I think we are touching on so many points
here. And this is the power of the Qi field, where obviously you are very skilled. It’s interesting for me. And again, now, first we spoke about how a western hospital is integrating the work of Zhineng Qigong as one example. And now you’re saying, okay, you are using this shamanic family constellation method, and you are adding Zhineng Qigong to it or by creating the field, and you immediately have
better results. So I think this is wonderful because Zhineng Qigong is not just an isolated method. It’s something we can use for all other areas of our life to get better results. Yeah, please tell me a little bit more about that. You know, what is the difference when David is there? What can you feel is happening? How are people showing up different and in which way are the
results different? The results are immediately visible. The field becomes stronger and the process is more fluid. People relax more easily, and we get to the cause of the problem and the solution faster and harmonize in the end, the field faster and more efficiently. And participants somehow spontaneously become aware of this collective self and mutual connection without words. Because the Qi field is stronger, we enter deeper and wider
into the process and through many layers of existence. And we don’t only heal transgenerational traumas, but also there is healing related to certain geographical spaces. We also go not only into the timelines through the past, but also into the future. Something amazing is happening in very harmonious and grounded ways. And also, I, as a facilitator, feel this protection and grounding that comes from David. Support is more clear
than without him. My energy to endure the process, which is quite exhausting for me, is stronger. And when we close the field, protective boundaries for the people and for us to save go into the new state of being are set better. Later in life, I also see improvement in people’s lives. That’s great. Yes, yes, it is very, very helpful. That’s great sharing because you’re basically showing us another
approach here. I don’t know. I suppose that the participants in your workshop are not necessarily aware that David is doing this Zhineng Qigong work, right? He’s not coming there and saying, “Listen, everyone, we’re all going to do wall squats together, and this is Zhineng Qigong.” No, he uses Zhineng Qigong in a very different way. Right. And that is also something for us when we go through everyday life.
I mean, not everybody knows Zhineng Qigong. I mean, the truth is, hardly anybody knows Zhineng Qigong. And not everybody is necessarily open to our methods. But if we, you know, if we go through life and go out through our daily lives and build a Qi field and radiate positive energy and come from an open heart and open mind, it has an immediate effect on other people and on
a situation without us having to talk about it. We don’t have to go and say, hey guys, we’re all doing Zhineng Qigong now. We can just do it from inside. And we already create a space where things become better, easier, and more successful. So I think this is wonderful to hear that. And again, congratulations. It is very, very helpful. You’re also working, David, if I remember, with senior
citizens; you’ve got a group of older people. I’d like to hear about that as well because this is a group that, in our Western societies, often struggles with isolation and doesn’t have the same possibilities anymore. And I’d like to see what you’re doing there and what the results are. Yes, I also work with retirees at the gerontology center since 2017, and they are very happy to come to
Zhineng Qigong. They train with great joy. They are more lively, more mobile. The various symptoms have decreased, and also quality of life increased generally. And we work at Zhineng Qigong, some little bit simple things from Tai Chi, also doing Qi Squats. This modified version, they accept this modified version. Yes, this is a great thing. Yes, this modification and also La Chi simple things. And they are very, very
happy and grateful. For this work, I also, before calling, have one another group of retirees in our studio also for many years, and they also have very great results. And in this group, come also people older than 80, which was very, very successful. And one word that struck me while you talked about it is the word joy. And I think that is also true for the other group
of patients that we spoke about earlier, the ones with schizophrenia. If I remember correctly, they also enjoy the practice. Is that so? Yes, yes, they enjoy, and they are also very grateful for this work. They tell me that what we work is better than any other therapy they are doing. Right. Because I’m bringing this up because for most of us, if we have a condition and we go
and see the doctor, we don’t usually put the word joy attached to it. We don’t say, oh, I’m so happy I can go to the doctor. But, you know, the health practice that you are offering and that we are basically offering is linked to joy. So it is an enjoyable practice. And I think even if there were no results, it would still be great because, you know, you
had half an hour, or an hour, or one and a half hours of fun and joy and happiness. But, you know, gratefully, thankfully, we have amazing results. But I just wanted to point that out because I think it also makes a big difference in people’s lives to have this opportunity to practice with you or just to. Even if I’m practicing by myself, I mean, it can be very,
very joyful because of the experience I have during the practice. And so I’m glad now you brought this point up now at the end of our little conversation here. All right, I don’t know whether there’s anything you would like to add here, Helena or David. I just want to say thank you for inviting us. And I want to say something from my perspective. I have been researching Chinese
oriental arts for 38 years now and teaching for 26 years. And for me, Zhineng Qigong is the essence of Chinese Qi culture. It is one of the most precious gems. I really, I really respect it. Thank you. Thank you. That’s wonderful closing words. Thank you very much, Helena. Thank you very much, David. I’m glad we had this conversation, and I hope to see you around somewhere in the
world very soon. Thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye. We trust you enjoyed this conversation, and we invite you to subscribe to our podcast so we can stay in touch and notify you of future episodes. We will end today’s episode with the Eight Verses Meditation performed by Zhineng Qigong teacher Katrien Hendrickx. Enjoy. To get your free eBook on the Eight Verses Meditation, please check the show notes below.
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