The miracles of the celebrated Eight Verses Meditation can be found in every aspect of our existence, and it shows particularly beautifully in music. Sharing from a lifelong experience as a violinist in a renowned orchestra, Farinaz helps us connect with the essence of the Eight Verses and the principles of Qigong. Let us explore how Qigong inspired her music and, equally, how music gave her valuable insights into the world
of Qigong. My name is Torsten Lueddecke, and this is the Western Qigong Podcast. Hello everyone, this is Torsten from the Zhineng Qigong Students Hub bringing you the Zhineng Qigong Community Podcast today. I have Farinaz with me, and she was so kind to offer to pronounce her last name herself because she says I’m hopeless and I will never be able to do that correctly. Farinaz, please give us your
last name.. But you don’t need to learn my last name. Farinaz is enough. Okay, that’s great. You said, yeah. She just explained that even her website only has her first name because it is so difficult for people to pronounce otherwise. So, welcome to the show. Our topic today is Qigong and music. Now, my first question, obviously, is what does one have to do with the other? Actually, everything.
I mean, in Qigong we learn about the Eight Verses. And I am just retired and I’ve worked 41 years in an orchestra. And when we start, we are all on the stage with our instruments, doing all the sounds and playing for ourselves. And at that moment, the conductor comes by, the concertmaster will stand up, and that is, for us, the moment to stop. And in Qigong, they said,
stand up, head in the blue sky, feet to the earth. And in an orchestra, we know that the tune that the concertmaster gives us happens the same. Thus, we have to take this tune. So, we actually, with having one tune with each other, are connecting all of us, the brass and then all the strings. And after three minutes, the conductor comes, and he is standing there, and we
all know. We are quiet. So, we go inside, and it’s only then that we are never being conscious about this. And then, 16 years ago, I learned for the first time Qigong, and I learned about how I have to ground myself. How should I use my central line? That was a beautiful word for me to connect my music when I am sitting with everybody and then opening from
the earth, from the podium, with each other and connecting what we did always, from going inside the music to going together, that we are not important ourselves, and that I love so much about playing in an orchestra. Because when you are solo, your ego is also playing. So I have to be good. I have to show you I am. I am not really connecting. I feel separation from
the people. But the music is not separating; the music just connecting everybody together. And in an orchestra, we are not important. I am not important when I play violin. It is. Everybody is important. And we go just to this emptiness, to this Qi Field. So it’s exactly the same. It’s exactly the same when we are going to the opening ourselves, when we go through our body and we
thank our body. So you can be very thankful for the sounds that your instrument makes, close to your heart. My instrument, anyway, I am a violinist. And this consciousness gives me more joy. I always had a lot of love and joy for my violin. And what gives me also a lot of joy and consciousness about many different things. Because it’s not always so poetic and so nice. Because
sometimes it is very exhausting work. We have to have 100% concentration. And it’s not a natural way of playing. We get a lot of pain in our necks, arms, because that is not a natural way to work for eight hours a day. We are not allowed to go for a walk if we have pain in our back. The concert has to go on. We are not allowed to
stop when our arms hurt. But with the consciousness of Qigong, I learned a lot about how I can, at that moment, give another message from the love and the peaceful connection with each other to my body. And it was always a miracle how that worked, and then, at once, it was gone, and I could carry on and play more. You’ve already brought up a lot of beautiful metaphors
that really, you know, I wasn’t aware of. But I think there’s so much we can find in how you describe, you know, how an orchestra works. It reminds me of people coming together for a practice, for a joint practice. And everybody is just focused on their daily lives and all kinds of thoughts going on. And then we start to build the Qi Field, right? Which is also where
we align to one intention and where we align to, you know, a common goal, so to speak. And that is what’s happening in the orchestra as well at that moment. And we know from the Qi Field how much more we can achieve if the Qi Field is created by a group. And so, just as you said, most people, obviously, in the orchestra are not aware that this is
what they are doing, but you are. And yeah, I think it’s a beautiful way to find a parallel in your work of music and your world of music. When you look at Qigong and even the Eight Verses that you just, you know, mentioned, there’s so much that you actually need to do to ground yourself before you go into the performance. Yeah, that is really, really beautiful. Is there
any… Anything else from the Eight Verses that sometimes, you know, maybe you use as a tool or that you reconnect with when you’re playing, when you’re in one of these situations in the orchestra? Yeah. You know, I like very much not to say the Eight Verses words by words. I like the meaning, the feeling of the Eight Verses. That, for me, is… And that is why also I
always explain to the people and let them find their own words. Because, you know, I am from Persia. I have grown up with another language, and then English, Dutch, and French. The language can bring me a lot of separation, and I don’t like that. I don’t like the feeling of being separate. And that happened also when I learned the Eight Verses. So, it was… I couldn’t… I always
say to my husband, those are not enough words. It is translated from Chinese to English. And then I transformed to the Netherlands. And that is not the feeling of the words. I have to know the feeling of the words. When I went to China, they really started to tell me about what it is because the culture thinks something else. When they said “blue sky,” that your mind is
clear… I mean, it’s a country of mountains. The Netherlands is a country of no mountains. So you can’t imagine. But for those people, or for me from Persia, the imagination of those words is in my body, in my blood. And so, what is important for me is when they said the mind is clear. That is with the music and with the… When you are in an orchestra, when
we start the concert, the concertmaster gives the tune, and the conductor comes and starts like this is advanced, it’s nothing. We shouldn’t have anything. Of course, sometimes things come and you hear the things around you. But you have the music. So, and that is… We are learned from child time. So, when the music is there, we interpret with our eyes, we hear it with our ears, and then
something very new happens. And also, with the Eight Verses, we are standing, looking at one point in front of us and giving all of our senses to this point, and that happens also. I mean, actually, in an orchestra, we are playing with our eyes, ears, and all the senses. But they are all together. They are not… They are not one by one. And that is also the meaning
of standing up and looking at one point, giving your senses. It’s not that we don’t have those senses. It means that all of our senses become one; it’s not individual. And then we go as one with the emptiness around us and this point, and we bring this emptiness back to ourselves. So that happens, actually, all the time with the music and in the orchestra, that we go to
the emptiness and the emptiness comes to us in combination with the sounds. And that happens because I am not important anymore. You know, I am not Farinaz. Just my sound is important, not others. And it’s all together, it’s very important. And that is… Yeah, it’s such a nice feeling when I find this feeling also back to the… With practicing with Qigong… And that was, I always had also
this feeling: “Oh, I feel great when I am playing.” But why am I not feeling the same when I am at home cooking, or I love my life? But it was a very different feeling, a very different sense of satisfaction than before I learned Qigong. And when I found Qigong, I had a choice also to have that feeling when I am not playing the violin. So, that was
really nice. I think… I think you’re bringing up a very interesting thought here. When I raised my question and you said, for you, it’s not so much about the individual lines of the Eight Verses, for you, it’s about the complete idea, what the Eight Verses actually mean. And that is just the analogy with your music as well. It’s not about the individual notes or the individual line of
music. It’s the whole composition. It’s not about the individual musician in the orchestra. It’s about bringing all of that together. And the idea to isolate one note, or one line, or one musician doesn’t really make sense in this context. And so, without me knowing, that question actually brought up another beautiful parallel, a beautiful metaphor for how Qigong works as well. And so, I think that’s a great learning.
And it just shows me how stupid my question was to ask you which line would work best for you. But then, you’re touching for the second time on something which is about you not being important. And how beautiful this is when you just immerse yourself and become one with the orchestra. And when it’s about the complete picture and not just an individual person. I think that is a…
That is a great observation, also compared to the solo artist, you know, where you spoke about the ego and the focus is on you and how well, do I perform? Rather than just letting yourself be taken away like on a wave with all of the orchestra or like everybody in the Qi field. So, I’d love to hear a little more about that and how that translates into your
daily life. Yeah, sometimes it’s so difficult to put words on what you feel and what you experience. So, I mean, it’s of course not all the time, because sometimes there are difficult pieces we have to practice at home or… But you know yourself, you’ve been to the concert hall. There are concerts where you forget everything, and the music just takes you, and at once you see that you
are 45 minutes later. And yeah, something happened, it happened. And for me, if I could put a word on it, it’s that we are actually, for the first time, in this moment, and we don’t actually become in a state of not knowing anything. I mean, I am working very hard. I am doing a lot of work, but behind those many hours of work, there is something that I
don’t know what it is. It is nothing. And that also happens when I am practicing my Qi field. When I am really connected with the Qi field, it’s that I am in a state of not knowing anything. And I am nothing, and just connecting with this emptiness. And that is what Master Liu very often said: emptiness, but not emptiness. So it’s very nice. It’s really that feeling. It
is an experience. I will say it also to my students: You have to really experience things, but you have to find your own word for it. And so, the information in information is the emptiness in the emptiness. And with the music, of course, come different lines of music that touch you and remind you of something. And that happens also with Qi field. We are very connected. At first,
something comes up from when you were two years old. Oh my God, I don’t want to have that. But when you are conscious, you can look at it, and then you say, “Okay, it’s enough.” And you again become connected. So, that happens also with beautiful music. And again, something difficult comes up. So then you feel, “Oh my God, I feel my arms.” It happens also with keeping the
body, but it also happens with playing. But then you are conscious, and you can just change. And what’s beautiful is also what I learned from Qigong: how important it is to be kind to myself, to be kind to my inner child, and separate my body from myself. You know, my body can be tired, but my inner child just needs to be loved and to be soft. And that
is when I remember myself, when I also play. I am playing and get pain. I just remember when I said, very stupid. If I say just I love you in myself to my arms at once, you feel it, that goes away and then I can carry on and you know, I think be practicing and knowing the language of QI field and information that the QI field for each
of us combining our lifestyle is very important that we learn to hear this information. And that is the same in a good concert. I have to hear, now the first violin goes lower and the second violin goes now harder. I have to allow them to play harder. I am playing first violin, and now it’s the solo. So that is the information at that moment. Maybe we practice a
lot, but at the concert, it’s again another information. And that is with practicing, each day is the same. So each day is a different information for me. From the past, from the future, transforming now. So it’s really very challenging. I can’t say anything. It’s just nice. My name is Leila Cupido, and I’m the project manager of the Students Hub. Our team is constantly adding events, teachers, videos, and
other resources to take your practice to the next level, improving the quality of your life and the life of the people around you. We do this work for you, so please use it now. Farinaz, that brings me to something you just said when you spoke about, you know, being in a state of knowing nothing now, but at the same time you say, like, you know, when you’re in
this state, you pick up certain things, like, you know, you have to play a little harder, a little louder, this or that. I mean, I’m not a musician, so please excuse my language here. So I would say, just like Master Liu said, empty yet not empty. I would say, you know, in this case, it’s know nothing yet know everything. Because you do pick up the information that is
necessary at that moment, and you have an understanding of the total without being able to put any words onto it. But you just know. People that don’t practice Qigong would say intuitively. But yeah, I would say how you’re picking it up from the Qi field through your Eng, your consciousness. Because you’re in a state where this information flows freely and you don’t put any boundaries. So you can
pick up these things and you know exactly what to do. Is that fair to say? Or am I making it up here? No, I like everybody to find their own words. So you say it beautifully, it’s your understanding, so it’s okay. It is not just one word for those things. It is many different experiences. And if we find that and trust our own experience, that is also important.
And Farinaz, do you also… I can see how you use Zhineng Qigong and how you make the parallels in your music and in your work. Is there anything you could, you know, offer to our audience the other way around, where they can use your analogy of music to help them with their practice? Is there anything that you know comes up for you? I think everybody does already. Most
people love the music. You can look at children. I have a grandson of 2 years old. He’s just singing, singing, singing the whole days. And so don’t think that you can’t play music or you can’t sing or something, it really doesn’t matter. Is that again our ego that thinks music should be perfect? No, just when you feel something in your heart and you feel you put a sound
on, you really have to do it. And if you’re at home and you love some music, just sing it. Or if you want to play a new instrument, just do it. Everything is okay. Is everything Qi? The music is also Qi. And when you have time to listen to the music you like, just connect, you know. Sometimes the music brings us back to our childhood, to sadness, or
something. Allow yourself, but don’t stay in a story of childhood. Don’t stay in a story of sadness. Of course, you can look at yourself. Oh, I was three years old with my mother. I listened to this piece. But that is it. That is enough, and carry on, go further with what the music gives you, a nice feeling for now, for your inner child. How you can be more
kind to your inner child, you know, so that. And that helped, you know, it is not something that we can learn and then stay with. It is like brushing our teeth. It is like breathing. We have to breathe each moment of the day we have, otherwise we will die. My heart has to work each day, otherwise I am not here. So with those things, we think also I
practice enough and I have to know it now. I’ve played violin since I was nine years old. But always, I had to practice. So Qigong is the same, remembering ourselves that, oh, am I kind to myself? Am I kind to my inner child? How can I be softer when I practice? How can I be when I do Lift Qi Up? Softly, not correct. I don’t like to be
correct. So that is why I don’t teach the movement because I think it’s okay. But how can I be kind and soften my hand, push down, often I push up? I can do it correctly, but without kindness to myself, to my inner child, to the Qi field. And I think, I really believe, everything is love, and we forget very often that we are love. So my mantra is
also forgiveness to myself for forgetting that I am love, and that happens all the time. It is not something that I can do just one day. I have to do it 10 times a day. I have to do it each day, and also in practicing. And that is also connecting with the music, so I can. It is a choice I have. It is a choice I listen to
your music. Am I want. Do I want to have the kindness from the music connecting with my inner kindness to make it something bigger and more love, more peaceful or am I just want to listen and feel myself miserable and thinking about how unlucky I was and I am coming from this country? My father was that or my mother did that. It’s also allowed to do it for
10 years, but I think that is enough. Then you have again the chance to be kind to yourself and look at the future, which is different from the past, the future that is kindness and love. And that is the universe, and that is the Qi field. I don’t know, it’s difficult. That’s beautiful. You said it beautiful. And yeah, when you… Because kindness, everybody kind of knows we should
be kind to ourselves. It’s like everybody tells us to be kind to yourself. But it’s one thing knowing it, and it’s another thing to actually practice it, to actually be that. And I love what you said when you said, you know, you also have to forgive yourself for forgetting that, because in our everyday life, you know, we are just busy here, busy there. That problem comes up, this
problem comes up, and we forget to be kind to each other, to ourselves, and… And yeah, to be soft, you know, also very soft with ourselves. That is also very important, to be kind in the moment. When we forgive ourselves, it is an act of kindness as well, right? And so, I think this is a very important message you’ve got here. But what I want to come back
to a little bit is the music, because what we haven’t touched yet is that many, many of us actually practice with music. So, when we do our daily Zhineng Qigong exercises, we use music in the background. It’s partly to help us tune into that state you were just describing. We might listen to something soft, gentle, and meditative. How do you feel about that? I don’t practice with music
at all myself. That’s interesting, no? But I do love to hear music sometimes if I’m somewhere where it’s playing. However, I know that some people can become dependent on the music. It was funny. Today, I practiced with music from Hartor, with a special resonance of 43 so I wanted to feel how is did she feel, but it is very good. Everybody is allowed but if they know that
it is not it is one of the other. I am not dependent of the music and depend music is not depend of me. So it is to be connected and again to allow ourselves to find something new again going to don’t knowing anything Then we. You know, sometimes we practice and it is a wonderful practice, and the next day, it’s just a war. All the thoughts come in.
But it’s also very good practice, even though we don’t know it at the time. We are just looking always through what we’ve experienced in the past. If I allowed myself to give some advice to people, I would say please don’t use your experience from the past. Just, each time, be open to what will happen in the moment, and then combine the experience later on in your day. And
beautiful things happen in your day. But during practice, don’t think, “Oh, yesterday I experienced more, it was more connecting.” Even if the thoughts come, or if we feel not as quiet as the day before, that is also a very good exercise because we need to see those things as well. And when we are connecting with the Qi field, that happens, and that happens with me. When I practiced
when I was young, I didn’t know about the psychology of everything, but when I started to play violin, all the thoughts of home, my sisters, my brother, my mother, everything would come to my head, and I was just playing, playing. Then, at once, I thought, “No, stop. Just look at your thoughts and then start to play.” So, it’s very interesting to be honest with yourself, accept everything, and
use the challenge to go into the unknown. And yeah, it is challenging. It’s very difficult, but it’s really challenging. What you said earlier, when you are teaching Zhineng Qigong, you don’t focus so much on posture and the correct movements. What is the focus of your teaching when you have students? I focus very much on grounding. For me, it is the most important thing, central line and a good
Qi field. For me, it is very important to be in a good Qi field, connecting, and really grounding. For me, grounding is the most important thing. Because I also said to people, I said, if you are religious and you are looking for a God, don’t look him upstairs looking him dumpster. He’s there. And when you are grounded, you open yourself more to the back. So, that is our
Yiyanji. Of course, we know it, but if someone doesn’t know about that, it’s as if you are in a back thing, looking at things from your backside. And grounded, then everything you see, there is no one way of thinking; everything is possible, everything is true. But when I am grounded and my thought goes just up, then I want to be right. What I am telling you is right.
So that happens also most of the time with discussions. You see that, then you have to look at the people, they are discussing, they are always like this. Nobody is discussing or shouting at each other from the backside and grounded. So, and of course, you know, you have to know, but you have to practice in a certain way. I mean, I don’t mind if we are doing push-ups
and one arm is lower than the other or fingers higher. But if I see the person really feeling the Qi and feeling the connection, that the Qi gives it to us and we give it back, I think that is how beautiful the experience is, to be connected and to be trusted. And that is very important. I think that is one of the beauties of Zhineng Qigong, because there
are many ways to access the power of Zhineng Qigong. And Dr. Pang said, “The theory is the practice, and the practice is the theory,” which means you can access all the wisdom and the benefits just via understanding. That is a possibility. You can access this just as you said, by being grounded and just immersing yourself in the Qi field. But I also know that you can access this
by doing the correct posture and the correct movement. So, there are really different angles that you can use. And as you said a couple of times today, everybody is different. One thing might resonate with me and it might not resonate with you. So, whatever access point I find now works for me is the right way for me. And somebody else might use a completely different approach. Yes, we
can also see this in the masters. We’ve got very different masters, and some of them are very particular with the movements and the postures, and it’s really useful, with people benefiting a lot from it. Others, yeah, don’t really care so much at all, and they’re also very successful in the work that they do, and people benefit immensely. So I think it’s very, very nice to see teachers from
all angles. And I can totally see why this teaching method, or why these factors, are so important to you, because it’s a perfect mirror for your whole life experience and how you’ve created beauty through your music all those years. Right? What happened also happened with the music. When we learned… I learned to play the violin, you have different teachers. That one is more for opening your heart, and
another teacher was for the techniques that we have to learn. So that is very important to know about both and just change from one teacher to another, learning from everybody and then making it your own thing. So what you said is 100% correct. You really have to know about all those things, including the movement, and why the pinky has to turn on. Right. And feel it. But the
important thing is don’t get stuck in one way, thinking that it is the only right way. What you said also is that everything is right, just what is good for you. Yeah, you said that beautifully. And I think that’s a great closing word, Farinaz, because just as you said, don’t get too invested in a certain music when you practice. Don’t think it has to do with this music.
The same thing is true for the practice itself. It’s not this way or that way. Don’t be invested in either. You know, things might work well for you at different times, and on another day, something else might be the better path. Right? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you very much, Farinaz. It was very exciting to talk to you, in particular, because I don’t know much about music,
so I was a little nervous to see. Okay. Whether I would be able to actually have this conversation, but it went beautifully. And thank you very much for your wisdom. Thank you. And thank you for all the beautiful music you’ve given to people over all these decades. I’m sure you’ve created a lot of joy, and maybe that’s why you’re such a joyful woman. Yeah. Thank you very much.
My love to you, and thank you, and to all the listeners. We obviously have Farinaz’s contact details in the show notes, so if you feel like you want to get in touch or work with her as your teacher, just use her website to get in touch with Farinaz. Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much. My love to Rita, and I hope to see you both very soon. To
our hearts. Thank you very much. We trust you enjoyed this conversation, and we invite you to subscribe to our podcast so we can stay in touch and notify you of future episodes. We will end today’s episode with the Eight Verses Meditation performed by Zhineng Qigong teacher Katrien Hendrickx. Enjoy. And to get your free eBook on the Eight Verses Meditation, please check the show notes below.
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