Having healed from stage 4 breast cancer, Qigong teacher, Debra highlights the importance of addressing emotional blockages such as fear and worry, which can create densities that hinder healing. She argues that too much focus on illness detracts from understanding the holistic nature of health, suggesting that a strong foundation built through the Qigong practice allows individuals to connect with their true selves.

Federico, having also faced his own health challenges with Multiple Sclerosis (MS), echoes Debra’s sentiments. He notes the importance of shifting attention away from fear and anxiety toward a mindset of joy and peace can also promote healing. A radical acceptance is also important to stay whole and unified, for it’s disturbances such as stress that complicate the healing process. Where mind, body, and spirit are aligned – suffering cannot ensue.

Self-awareness in the healing process, is important for Ronit, having healed from rheumatoid arthritis through Zhineng Qigong. Understanding who you truly are is foundational to overcoming the fear, that often stems from a lack of self-knowledge. This separation from one’s true self can lead to suffering. Ronit emphasizes self-honesty to understand ego’s impact on experiences. 

One question with many answers, we can agree that healing is deeper than physical symptoms; it encompasses rebuilding trust—trust in life and in one’s own purpose, in the belief that our path is set.

For some of us, this is a question of life and death. Why do some people heal and others don’t? For the first time in this podcast, I’ve invited a number of distinguished teachers to discuss this topic of highest importance. Let us welcome Debra Weisenburger-Lipetz, Ronit Adar, Britta Stalling, and Federico García. My name is Torsten Lueddecke, and this is the Wisdom Qigong Podcast. The information and views provided in

this episode are personal opinions, not medical advice. Welcome, everyone, to this special edition of Wisdom Qigong Uncovered. This is a special edition because, for the first time, I have more than one guest. I have four distinguished Zhineng Qigong teachers and healers around the table, and I’ve invited them because today I want to look into a question that’s not only close to my heart, but that is a question

of life and death for many of us. That question is, why do some people heal and others don’t? So here is my round of guests. I’m very grateful to all four of you that you have joined. We have Debra Weisenburger-Lipetz with us. Debra is one of the very few teachers in the West who has been to the famous medicine-less hospital, the Huaxia Center, and she’s been personally introduced

to Dr. Pang. So she obviously is a very special guest here today. Thank you very much for joining, Debra. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here, see what transpires. Then we’ve got Britta Stalling here. Many of you in the community might know Britta, because many years ago, I think it’s more than a decade now, she set up a program together with Master Yuantong

Liu, where they are teaching people in the West the techniques that they used at the workshop center. So basically, she’s educating therapists so that they can work with their people, their patients, and students in order to heal. Welcome, Britta. Thanks a lot, Torsten, for the great invitation and also the beautiful topic, which I think will inspire many listeners. Thank you to my colleagues around the world. I’m very

excited to be with you together, and explore this very important question together to give some insights and inspiration to all our listeners. Thank you. Then we’ve got Ronit Adar with us. Ronit has been a very successful guest on the podcast before because Ronit is one of the major people these days who actually organizes and takes people to China, to healing retreats, to centers, to healing centers. So she

is cooperating a lot with the Huaxia Center. Ronit is the person who is currently taking all these people into these healing centers that are kind of the succession of the Huaxia Center. Welcome, Ronit. Thank you very, very much. I’m also very happy to be here. I’m honored, and I think it’s a very, very important topic. I hope it will help many people. Then we’ve got Federico García with

us. Federico is currently studying the ideas of Zhineng Qigong and how they relate to the Western ideas of… How do you say that exactly? Stress physiology. The physiology. Stress physiology. Physiology of stress. Thank you very much for being with us today, Federico. Yes, thank you. It’s very nice. I haven’t met many of you and I’m very open to and very curious to your perspective on the topic. Why

do some people heal and others don’t? I think we should jump right into it. Debra, what is your take on that question? Why do some people heal and others don’t? Well, first of all, it’s a major question that I have wondered about my, my entire career as a Zhineng Qigong teacher and practitioner, what I have discovered through my own experiences. I did heal from stage four cancer, and

I realized that for myself, that carried a great deal of guilt because years ago, I did not understand why I healed and others did not. So now I’m beginning to have a broader understanding, and just quickly, because we all need to speak, from my own experience, I realized that perhaps we pay too much emphasis on illness and not enough emphasis on worry, stress, as Federico has suggested, and

fear. So those are the things that really block and create densities and really create illness. So those may be things we would want to look at. I think it all starts with a good foundation. The good foundation we acquire through our practice, working from the inside out, not the outside in. It takes time for some people, a moment, for some people, months. But to be patient with ourselves

and not take ourselves so seriously and move forward from there. Ronit, from your experience, how do you see things? For me, first of all, I’ve also been with this question a lot, and I am in everyday life with the people I work with and with myself. For me, I think the main thing that is connected to what Debra said, but really understanding who we are. From my point

of view, I think it’s a consciousness issue, and fear and stress and all the other emotions and burdens we have in our life start from not really understanding who we really are. The transformation needed is so deep that I think this is the main cause. And maybe. That’s what I’ll say for now, for the beginning. Okay, thank you very much. Britta, when you look at your Hunyuan Qi

therapy program, is that something you actually teach in the program? Are you focusing more on, you know, on other work. Related to why people heal and why people don’t heal? What do you mean? Well, or discovering who you really are. When I look at the point of… Oh yes, of course. No, of course. It’s a very important point. I think everything what Ronit and Debra have shared so

far are very meaningful, and I’m happy to build on it. I would like to actually bring the conversation maybe to another aspect of why people heal and others don’t. Because, out of my observation, it has often a lot to do with the power of intention. So that if people are really honest—and that’s related also to what Ronit and Debra have shared—do we know ourselves good enough that we

can honestly say we do have the intention to heal? Obviously, everybody who’s on this path of self-healing would say, “Yes, of course, of course. Otherwise, I wouldn’t do this workshop, or otherwise I wouldn’t have a session with Ronit or with Debra.” Of course, I want to heal. But then you take it a step deeper and you ask more questions, and then you might find that one person really

means it and has a very powerful intention to heal. I can give an example, actually, from my network, and another person just says it. But there are underlying subconscious limitations or thought patterns or habits, which are actually in the way of manifesting that intention. And the person is not willing yet to really take a closer look and overcome that particular… maybe it’s a belief, maybe it’s a distrust.

No, not feeling really confident. I can bring in one example of two people having the same diagnosis. It’s an eye illness, and one person—both are Zhineng Qigong practitioners, both know the art of natural healing and self-healing. And also, they know the power of practice. They’re willing to practice, but one has a very powerful intention. He’s a pilot, and he clearly wants to fly until he’s dead—I mean, until

his last breath. That’s really his intention. So he’s willing to practice on a joyful, deeper level because he understands that the power of his intention is carrying him through until the day he has healed his eyesight. Let’s say, I don’t know the exact number of months, but maybe one year later, he’s having another exam, and his eyesight is back to normal. And the other person also has a

healing intention, but it’s doubtful, you know, because the symptoms of bad eyesight, and particularly the side effects of this illness, remind her each day that she has these symptoms and how can she heal? So there is a dedication to practice, but not so deep, not so regular, based also on the lack of a powerful intention for life. So why does she want to heal? And that obviously is

a question everybody has to find the answer for themselves. That’s why it’s also a complex topic and you cannot really say, you know, this is, this is the particular reason. But I would like to bring in the power of intention and invite practitioners, people who are on the journey of self healing, to really reflect on that and otherwise reach out to one of us or another Zhineng Qigong

or therapist who can help. Clarifying the power of intention, we have a way you can discover Qigong. At the Zhineng Qigong Student Hub, we know that understanding Qigong is very important, and also that Zhineng Qigong in itself has various nuances that people can’t easily comprehend. So we’ve approached it in the style of a video game. On this page, Discover Qigong, you can select your character. So, you can

either be a beginner, a practitioner, or a holistic healer or self-healer. And you click on your character, and it takes you to these different sections. In these sections, you can explore the nuances, and when you click on a card, all of the resources pop up. We’ve made it really fun, and not many people know about it. So, if you are interested, have a look and discover Qigong. Thank

you. Britta, maybe Federico, it’s your turn now. I was already thinking of you when Debra spoke about all these emotions like, you know, fear, anxiety, and when we talk about stress, obviously this is where, you know, all of these things, these factors come in. So what’s your take on the situation? My take is like the question for this topic that you brought, which is great, I would turn

it. Why do? I would. Instead of saying why do people do not heal, I turn it inside. Why do I not heal? Why am I not whole? Because of course, that is my experience. Any of us who have not had perfect health or well being will be focusing on that. So, for myself, I discovered, you know, having really terrible diagnoses, many at the same time, that, of course,

from fear, you’re going to focus on the disease, the illness, just like Debra was saying. The focus is very much on healing, healing, healing, illness, illness, illness. Just from what was said also by Britta just now, the intention is going towards illness. The focus is on illness. We’re focusing our intention on illness. We’re magnifying the illness. I know it from experience. I think we all know what fear

is like. So, just from realizing this and just as has been said, understanding through intensive practice for really decades, that to come to understand, oh, my focus. I want to mention something very important. I think that makes the big difference, and it’s actually, to my understanding, a very large topic in Zhineng Qigong science, which is to understand the reference framework, how the reference framework actually works, what it

is made of, how to deal with it, and how to transform it. Of course, we do it through practice and everything that is included. But the reason why, in my understanding, the focus is, for most of us, initially, when we have some kind of diagnosis, the focus is on fear and on solving the problem. There is a problem. Instead of focusing on basic aspects of Zhineng Qigong science,

like the openness that you are the spirit, already—you just forgot it. And so here are all these methods and mantras and techniques, like this mantra here, instead of focusing on them, we focus. No, I need to get rid of this. I need to go to the doctor and not have the disease. So for that, I think we just need to be. It’s just a matter of. It takes

time. Like Debra said initially, we have to be transitioning from intense fear and anxiety and worry and everything to come into peace. I am alive right now. Nothing is wrong. I can practice for another hour or another two hours, whatever, and just to be focused, narrowing our attention to just what we want. I want to be joyful and peaceful and happy and feel better. And that’s the focus.

Moment by moment. Now, if I’m trying to summarize a little bit on what we’ve said so far, I think we all agree that the body has a natural ability to heal. And what we do with Zhineng Qigong is basically to activate and support the body in its healing process. However, whenever, you know, disturbances come in, like stress, fear, worries, distractions, that is the moment where we make it

harder for our body to do the actual healing process. Is that, is that fair to say? Is that why it’s so much in the way? You’re nodding there, Debra. Maybe you want to take over and add to that? Well, I think everyone has brought up very, very important aspects of healing and I would like to piggyback on what Ronit said, because I think it is understanding ourself, our

own true potential, who we really are. That happens by working inwardly. I believe that it’s helpful for everyone to have. This good foundation includes movement, of course, because we are so attached to our physical body, form, ego, logic, kind of all outside of us. But our methods are a bridge to help us go inward. When we can create that good foundation and have an inner connection, then we

begin to open up inwardly to different levels, different dimensions of who we are, and it naturally begins to change our frame of reference. When our frame of reference is changing, our logic and ego get very confused, so it steps aside so that we can cultivate this inner space, which is our growing space, our nutrition. When we finally have that deeper understanding, then shen and Qi are merged together,

and they are not separate. As we explore that route, it’s a natural ability to heal because there’s no separation. We’re not working on just the physical body. We’re not working just on being quiet and meditating. We are also working on opening our shen, heart, and merging all of that together. It pulls everything into oneness, and it becomes easier to heal. I don’t think it’s all that hard. What

creates the challenge is, as Federico pointed out, our perspective, our frame of reference, our logic, our ego. Thank you, Debra. Ronit and Britta mentioned intention, and I remember that when we had our very first podcast, I will never forget how you said, because you were dealing with your very own healing story and your intention was so strong that at one point, and I hope I quote you correctly,

you said, “I’m going to China now and I will not return before I haven’t healed.” Now, for me, I can already feel my goosebumps. This is intention, right? Do you want to, do you want to add to that? Maybe? Yeah, I think, I think it’s an intention. It’s a very clear. I think the perfect. The most important thing is to be, like Britta said, one hearted, like really,

really honest and discovering the places where you’re not honest. Usually people are not. Not honest because they’re lying, because they’re not aware of how the ego and the reference framework is working on us. So actually all this beautiful process that Debra was depicting can happen when your mind is really quiet and you really dive into the field and you can really merge with the Qi field, and then

things happen to you. But after the practice, you know, it’s not just during the practice hour. Healing is about transforming the information and holding your strong intention 24 hours a day. And the amount of thoughts we have every day . And the amount of habits and convictions and, you know, beliefs we have is so strong that we don’t understand it’s part of the illness. We attach too much

to the science, to the body, to the symptoms. And we think healing is solving the symptoms. We don’t realize that our whole being, that suffered from our reference framework, from our traumas, from everything, has been built in a way that we’re not understanding where to look. So when we talk about intention, the word trust comes to me. I think we’re healing the trust—the trust in life, the trust

in ourselves, the trust that life is really what it is and it’s not as frightening and scary as we see in the newspapers everywhere. So it’s really like a revolution or something really radical in distrust. I know, I myself have been struggling with it for years to make it more and more and more, because Teacher Wei Qifeng says the water doesn’t boil at 99%. You have to go

all the way. And some people who have a very, very strong intention and they’re really committed—it comes from the heart, not from the mind—then it will happen. Now, there is a distinction, Ronit, between having a very strong intention and trying very hard to get healthy, right? Yes. So maybe, Britta, is that something you would like to explore a bit? Yes, with pleasure. I actually also would like to

come back, if possible, to the question you had earlier about the impact of emotions, you know, when you feel worry and fear. But we can see if there’s space for that. Yes, actually when we think about it, that. I think gave a great example as well as Deborah, you know, having this strong intention for their own self. Frederico as well, you know, for their own self healing and

their health and really doing or being whatever is possible to make it happen, happen, whatever it takes. Also, you know, not, let’s say, playing around, but really from inside, choosing a state of whatever it takes. If I need to change my way of being, if I need to transform limiting beliefs or frames which are in my way, I go all the way. Then obviously there are other status

where, you know, people maybe hope for health. Hope is actually the lowest level of. We cannot even call it intention. It’s really like, yeah, I hope one day I will be better, but hope doesn’t. There’s no willingness to take action. Maybe the hope is still outside. You know, something happens to me and then hopefully, you know, I get better, or you wish, you know, for good health. Wishing

is already a little bit higher than hope. It’s not on the level of “I change, I transform, I evolve, I grow to whatever it takes, I make it happen.” Then, obviously, we also have the distinction of goal. You know, I, yes, okay, I know I want to be healthy, and I set a goal: by Christmas, I’m going to be healthy. So that’s a stronger objective. You probably then

also take some actions, like maybe changing your nutrition. You now practice, instead of one hour, two to three hours, because that’s also something that Zhineng Qigong masters have been sharing with us around the world, including Dr. Pang Ming. If you really would like to create vibrant health and you have a chronic disease, then it’s better to practice two to three hours a day and not just one. So

when you have this goal of being healthy again, you might choose then to practice but. You still are not on the level of intention where really whatever it takes, and you’re willing. We spoke about ego of frames. You’re really willing to look deep into yourself and transform what needs to be transformed, choosing a new lifestyle. Maybe I can bring in one story of one of our Hunyuan Qi

therapists who healed himself from skin cancer. It was quite a life-challenging situation. All his family members were very worried, and he chose to be happy. He knew that the state of joy and happiness would heal him because the state of joy would nourish the heart energy. Then it has an impact on all our inner organs, the body relaxes, and his whole Zhineng Qigong practice would then help him

to recover. So he kept being joyful even if the family members were sad or desperate. So he had, first of all, a very high intention, but second, he was also willing to change his own inner state, overcoming his own fear, and then eventually healed. Thank you, Britta and Federico. I’d like to come back to this whole idea of frame of references, if that’s possible, because we kind of

agreed that this is in the way to our healing. How does one actually become aware of what my frame of reference is? Because without that awareness, there’s not much I can change. This is also the reason why I might be running around thinking my intention is to heal, because I haven’t really understood myself very well. I haven’t really uncovered what else is going on for me and what

my frame of reference is. So how does one uncover one’s frame of reference. Federico? Yes, I want very much to address your question. I also want to express that in listening to each one of you. I can’t remember who said what, but I’m really trying to put it all together because I think it’s very valuable. And so before I answer your question, I think it might be connected.

When I heard Ronit, she was talking about trust, or I would even go as far as faith. People don’t talk about faith in Qigong, but in fact, I believe that’s, in my experience, that actually is what is required. Faith means that there’s not to have some kind of belief or it will work. You know, I think that’s good. It’s better than nothing. Like Britta was addressing, that there’s

different levels of wishing and desiring. But to have faith means that you are surrendered. You are surrendered to what your life has given you and that you not have this path. This is my experience. When I was very, really at the end, I didn’t know what else to do. Then life just showed up and very soon I was in China. And then it’s not like, “Oh, I will

do it, I need to do this.” No, it’s just, “Okay, I give up, I will follow now.” So that was a big lesson for me in my, you could say, my Zhineng Qigong path, is from the very beginning—surrender, let go, and let this wave carry you. So trusting in life, Zhineng Qigong is part of life. So trusting. Zhineng Qigong is a way of trusting in life, you see.

Well, there’s this very great intelligence behind it, and I will surrender to it and follow it to the end, you know, whatever it takes. Then, in addressing the notion of the reference framework, I work with people very differently. I don’t use Qigong terms because, in the West, it is very complicated. In my experience, however, my experience is that people say, yes, I really need to hear from this,

that the others, you know, thousands of things. But because of the established reference framework, which we could understand as who we think we are, at some superficial level, it’s actually very superficial. It’s not deep at all, but it’s very strong. So these individuals come and wish to be healed. They certainly need it and want it. But as soon as they begin to heal, which means to open, the

heart opens, I’m beginning to be touched by life. Or maybe I can trust, maybe I can follow. Then immediately there’s a closing. Ah, no, this is wrong. I need to do some other thing. This is not what, you know, there’s. So it’s, you know, the foundation of Zhineng Qigong is focusing on opening and closing, right? So it’s, we have to be observant of the opening and the closing.

So to simplify, to be attached to the reference framework means to be attached to the closing or to the opening only. Oh no, I’m opening. Great. Oh no, I’m opening. Too much. Oh, oh no, I’m closing. Oh no. So that’s the foundation of the reference framework. So to dissolve it, I need to see that there’s opening and there’s closing and that’s life. So that I’m distanced from this

and from that. And I, who am aware of the closing and the opening, I am not that. So that begins to demolish the foundation of the reference framework. It’s all, it’s really a pattern of openings and closings, you could say, at a really, really big scale. So the set that you could say the false sense of self in Chinese, the yīnyǐng zìwǒ, the shadow self, is made up

of the reference framework. And it’s completely superficial. There’s no heart in it. There’s no trust, there’s no warmth. It’s very cold, actually. And you know, from the experience of course, being like everybody else, that’s just, it’s inevitable. That’s how everybody has a reference framework. But Zhineng Qigong offers a new reference framework, which is, it’s very obvious from the very beginning: no, you are not this thing. You are.

As Dr. Pang says, the indomitable spirit. That’s who you are. So that’s a different reference framework. So it’s, it’s kind of going in from one to the other over many, many experiences of being totally closed, being totally open, and then finding the balance to where you are, where you want to be. Ronit, how did you go about, understanding and really getting who you are, knowing who you are,

becoming who you are? What was your path there? First of all, I’m still in the process. It’s never ending story. I had two big steps towards that. One was dealing. One is when you mentioned when I was really ill and I decided I’m gonna heal no matter what. This included just not letting the fear, and the despair and all the negative and the following, the physical symptoms and

everything. I just stopped following it. I just, I was aware every moment in the day when these thoughts came or these incidents came and I just didn’t let my mind go there. Then there was another wave which I really understood. I have to take care of every thought in the day that is going out of my mind. It was not considering symptoms of illness. It was considering every,

you know, the everyday life situation, relationships, family members, work, and to understand the power. Every thought that comes out of me is creating a reality. And the reality is. This was the time where I understood if you want to heal, you have to forget about the illness, about the symptoms. The illness is only a wake up call to understand that we are life and that illness is when

we stop trusting life. We want to rule it or to control it or to criticize it, or to try and do things with it, we get in the way. For me that stage was working with the information, transforming every, like really 24 hours a day. Because I understood even things that seem not connected, are connected in my life. Then I could realize all the things that everyone here

is talking about, about the reference framework and about their emotions and everything. Now I know from many conversations with people that they find this extremely hard. So I know you, Ronit, you had, you had terrible symptoms basically. So there was pain involved in all of these things, and yet, Debra, you said, you know, focus on the health. People say, well, how can I focus on the health if

I have all these symptoms? I mean, it’s constantly reminding me of my illness, of my disease. It sounds so, so simple on one level to say, well, focus on the health. But I think this is what needs to be done, right? Because, Ronit, you did it. When I listened to how you explained that, it’s exactly what you did. You said, I’m making a conscious decision here. These thoughts,

these sensations, I will not give any attention to. And so that takes me back to you, Debra, because that’s basically how you opened our conversation, by speaking about this focus on the health, on the joy. You even said, you know, don’t be so serious, serious about it. Can you explore, can you take our conversation maybe in that direction a little bit more? Yes. There are a couple things

that I think are really important. One, trust was mentioned and I think that is an essential factor in what we do. So how do we build trust? How do we make that happen? We do exactly as. Do I pronounce your name correctly, Ronit? Yeah. Okay. Exactly the way she described it, which is not easy, it’s very challenging, and I think we should diminish the word “try” to make

anything happen. Because, as Federico said, when he just quit and surrendered, that’s when the change and transformation began to happen. I think in Corona, it was the same thing, because you were working from the inside out. You were opening up, and your frame of reference was changing. It was this similar experience for myself. I quit, so to speak, doing everything I was told to do, and I made

up my own way of doing it, and I completely healed. So I think when we quit trying and we just be, that’s a huge step because that takes us inside and then we begin to have this sort of inner nudge and think maybe perhaps this is the beginning of trust. Then that begins to build confidence, and we can open up inwardly. Everything begins to change, including our frame

of reference. We don’t have to try so hard to change anything. Gradually, pain diminishes, and everything begins to diminish. Our first instinct, if we are in pain, is to—obviously, our body is saying, you need help right now. If we can take that challenge as trouble being our friend and go inside, we can diminish the pain very quickly. Then that gives us the opportunity to transform and make changes.

That doesn’t mean it’s easy. You might have to try it a dozen times before it finally clicks in. But the idea is there. It’s not so much trying, it’s just moving into a different space. May I just add on what Ronit and Debra has been sharing, because I got the insight to build on it and say that the moment before the transformation starts, there’s also a deep level

of choice. So you come to the conclusion that whatever you do is harmful to your body. Your body gives you the symptoms, and then, from deep inside of you, you choose a different, let’s say, way of being, or a different lifestyle, or a different perspective. I would just like to bring in something. I have not had these illnesses as sincerely as you guys, but I remember very clearly

when we had a drought in Cape Town, where we used to live. That was quite fearful, and at one moment, I developed a stomach ache because I was very much worried about the city running out of water and how that would be quite life-threatening, actually, to all of us living there. I noticed then how my mindset, the worry, was impacting my stomach, and my stomach reacted with pain.

I was in pain for maybe two to three days. Then I also realized that if I continued like that, I might attract a very serious illness, and I wouldn’t really help the situation. So I made a conscious choice to stop worrying, even though the situation outside didn’t change. I changed and chose a healthy mindset in order to protect myself. Then I also started a new initiative which, and

I think that is maybe also related, that out of this choice also comes maybe a new perspective or a new idea how you can be part of the solution. Solution and not part of the problem. I decided then to be part of the solution. That’s a bit too complex to explain here, but that was a very interesting revelation. When you reveal, you have an insight. Yeah, a big

insight actually. Choice, everybody has a choice. We just need to be aware of making the right choices, and then I would like to add practice, because that is something you can then support your new choices. Dr. Pang has shared with us and the Zhineng Qigong masters have shared with us so many practices. So we then can choose the right practice for the right situation at that moment and

fill ourselves again with Qi.. Because sometimes also people might have not enough Qi, let’s say, in their energy field, which supports mental clarity, stability, nourishment, so that they make the right choices. Obviously, if you’re suffering from certain symptoms, you also don’t have enough Qi in your lower Dantian, which is the energy center for physical strength and well-being. But we have a lot of practices, so then we can

choose certain practices to help recover also fast. Choices first. I think if we, if we just practice without a clear understanding that we have a choice, then the practice also becomes hard. I think one of the earlier statements, Torsten, you made: why do some people practice so hard and they don’t heal? Maybe because they have not reflected deep enough on certain life choices. They need to first, let’s

say, heal and then make their practice joyful. I mean, you should be very happy. You have these amazing practices. Dr. Pang gave us so many gifts, and we are just here to, you know, embrace them and enjoy them. If you are, as a listener, you know, somebody who practiced very hard for many years and you don’t recover, then I think that’s the invitation. Reflect on the choices you

make in your life and whether you really opened your heart and changed your emotions into trust and confidence, what you already mentioned, but also joy. And I think joy is also a state we can choose no matter how desperate our situation is. Thank you. I’m sure. Federico, many things have been going through your mind while you were listening to these beautiful ladies. Maybe there is something you would

like to add? Or take, you know, take on as a thought. Well, I would say that in general, everything has to be about what’s happening right now. Speaking about healing, am I whole right now? Right now, Is there wholeness in my experience? What is that like? Do I need to be practicing some method to be whole? Then of course, that is natural. That means that the healing process

is still ongoing. It will always be ongoing. But what I mean is. If I am separate from the situation that is happening right now, then I’m not whole. There’s a fragment, there’s a separation. So there’s a resistance or a fighting or a. Something is not. Well, there is. There is no wholeness. There is no wellness, and in my experience, that’s always. Is a matter of the heart. Can

I be open to whatever is happening right now without resistance? Loving it? But it’s not an idea when there is love in our experience, everything is very light and smooth and even. We all know these terms. Smooth, openness, lightness. There’s no concern. Everything’s fine just exactly as it is. It is totally okay. I just want to refer to this mantra here again. Not everybody is open to it.

Not everybody is aware of it or teaches it. Fundamentally, it means when the spirit moves through our heart and our mind, we are one, with whatever is happening. Then the power of intention and the will and everything, it just happens for you. There’s no separate Federico willing his life or intending his life or whatever that is, that is absurd. When healing means when there’s no Federico anymore to

control, to have an intent, oh, I’m doing this and this and that and the other. In my experience, that is still disease. The reference framework is still very strong, very, very much active. They will come up with new ways to challenge the sense of being whole again. So I think it’s really back to what has been said. I recall Debra and Ronit, and I think also Britta. Zhineng

Qigong is not separate from life. It is a manifestation of life, a manifestation of consciousness. Of course, not everybody will be exposed to it. But whoever is fortunate enough, and that is number one, to be fortunate even to know about it. Then to be fortunate to understand it or to benefit from it, that’s another experience. Then you realize, actually this is not about Dr. Pang or Zhineng Qigong

or China or whatever, or a person or. It’s not about any of that. It’s just about being one with life, to be open, to surrender to it and to say yes to everything. Everything. Then there’s no resistance. There’s not going to be a corresponding contraction in opposition to whatever is happening. Then we can speak about being joyful, being very open. If there’s just, yes. Yes and thank you.

I just want to give. Offer one anecdote. I think it was 2006, when I, or Zhineng Qigong discovered me. I don’t know how it was. Everything in the circumstances of my life was in opposition of going with this. Learning this, being exposed to it. The day before I was going to go to China, I was in a car accident. They told me that you can’t fly. Are you

insane? You can’t go. I said, “No, I am going.” It is simply merging with life. That, to me, that’s what Zhineng Qigong is about. It’s giving us some kind of structure that we can consider through practices, methods, and ideas and mantras. It’s a vast field. There’s something for everyone. I will be attracted by some particular thing, but in my case, oh, it’s just. I need to. I need.

I was like. I used to show you get into a wave and you just follow it all the way to the shore. So I think it’s to make it more, simultaneously more simple. It’s really just a gift. Can I receive the gift or am I going to be spending many years thinking about, “Oh, maybe it’s a good one.” I don’t know. You see, I’m not sure that there

is choice involved in that. I would. I wouldn’t say, in fact, that there is choice. Either it happens for you or it doesn’t. That’s just how it is, period. So I consider myself very fortunate, that I was obedient to what was offered. Ronit, from your own personal healing story, is there something you feel like you would like to add towards this conversation? I think there is a journey

between the person who has symptoms and illness to the state, to the Qigong state. It looks like two different things. Like you said, “It’s sometimes very, very difficult for people who are really aching and really stressing out to connect to the state.” To the beautiful state Federico was talking about, and Debra and Britta. It’s just. If you put your heart into it, if you don’t give up. Not

giving up, even though you fall many times. If you take the support and if you learn. Start by the beginning. It’s a theory for people who start, yeah? Understanding just to look where you don’t think you should look. I totally agree with everything said here that if you can have a joyful, a peaceful, happy state, this will do a lot. If you’re on your way to saying, how

can I? You know, how can it happen? Then it’s time to look in the information you’re holding in your life, all the areas in your life, and see what is asking to be open. This can be, you know, maybe a hint. Okay, thank you Ronit. I’ve got a thought that I would like to bring into the discussion. And yeah, I might be completely off here, but in my

experience, in order to get to that state of lightness is well, it’s not so difficult. Healing is natural. It’s just something that can happen. There’s a part of me that would say that, “Fundamentally I can’t hang on to life, to life too much.” I have to be fundamentally willing to let go. If I am too attached to, “Oh my God, I want to live.” Then I’m all tense

and there’s no way I can relax. There’s no way I can be joyful. So in a way, there is. I think, Federico, you sometimes say, “Look, everything is good, everything is fine.” Right? So, you know, we’re all going to die one day. So I kind of need to surrender to that idea and say, “No, don’t take it so damn seriously. It’s going to come anyway one day, right?”

So let me relax about the whole thing and let me be joyful and let me see what I can do to have many beautiful years ahead.” But fundamentally I need to let go of this, holding onto my petty little life, right? And then I can make these choices and say, “Now, having been totally peaceful with that idea that, you know, one day I’ll be gone, now what are

the steps that I can take?” That is where everything comes in. That is now when intention kicks in, then this is where I can check up on myself. Am I the person that says, well, “I wish I could go to that retreat, but you know, I have to take care of my husband at home or my kids are still going to school. I can’t leave them behind? Do

I have all kinds of reasons why I’m not going there.” So it’s actually two questions here, two aspects here. One is this idea of being totally fine with, if it’s not working, it’s not working. You know, what the heck, let me have fun anyway, right? The other one is to test my commitment by checking where I set my priorities. Debra said it so beautifully. She said, at one

point, “You know, I don’t care what people say.” “I’ll do it my way now.” I remember, Ronit, when you went to China. You said, “I know I’ve got a child, but I don’t serve her back home if I continue to suffer. I’m not serving anyone if I don’t put myself and my health in first priority now.” So, that was a lot from my side, given that, I just

wanted to raise the question, but I’d love to hear. Debra, how do you feel about what I just said? Well, personally, I think your petty life is very worthwhile. I would like to also, make sure that it’s clear when I said, “I just quit.”, and when Frederico says, “I just surrendered.” We never stopped. It was a continuation. It was just at a different space, a different level, a

different awareness, but we never stopped. We are not trying to make anything happen. I think acceptance of everything just the way it is. Is a huge part of creating trust, confidence and learning how empowered we are as beings. Saying yes to everything I think is true. Everything, accept everything, and that includes your illness, your disharmony, your fears, your emotions, everything. When you include all of that. To me,

it is that unsticking. You’re not attached anymore to anything outside of you that isn’t going to help you. You are relying more and more on your inner awareness, your inner light, your inner lighthouse, your essence, whatever you want to call it. None of those words are quite right. Then we are empowered in a way that makes it so much more effective to live in our life, comfortably. Again,

there’s no separation. Absolutely none. Well, I’m going off on a tangent. I’ll just stop there. Continue. We could talk for hours. Yes, I know. Thank you, Debra. Britta, do you want to add something here? Yes. I mean, it’s a very powerful conversation. I really feel very inspired. So thank you so much for the great flow so far. The conversation where we are right now brought me to one

experience I’d like to share, which might be helpful. I have a client in Germany who’s a Zhineng Qigong practitioner, but he’s also a trainer and coach in resilience. He’s teaching actually other people to accept and be in the moment. Then a few months ago, he was in a car crash. In that moment, he completely crashed his car. Somebody else drove into his car. It was not his fault,

but the. How do you say that? The airbags. From one moment, he didn’t foresee it. So, from one moment to another, he was in the dust, dark, and the car crashed. It was actually… The car was useless afterward. So, it was completely broken. Yeah, total crash. In that moment, he chose to apply what he was teaching and sharing: full surrendering, accepting the moment, accepting this car crash. It

was not his fault, but he really realized. I found this so powerful, that it was this one moment where he then realized he’s in deep trouble. He was checking himself. He was not injured. He was very clear in his mind. He was not fearful because he was accepting. I mean, who could? I don’t know if I would be in that state, honestly, although I have decades of Zhineng

Qigong practice. He went out. He was actually helping the woman who caused the car crash. She was very upset and emotionally shaken. He looked aside and already a truck came to take his car. Everything was very smooth and easy just because he was in that moment of surrendering and applying what he was teaching, sharing, and practicing himself for many, many years. So that’s one aspect that I agree

with everybody. Everyone has been sharing so far. Maybe a new dimension I’d like to bring in is that Dr. Pang talks about what true health is and offers three pillars of true health. One, we’ve already talked about: healthy thoughts, the right mindset, right choices, transforming limiting beliefs or patterns, and really coming to who we are and then living it. Also, Ronit earlier, you know, shared how she was

shifting and changing in her healing journey. So, happy thoughts are one pillar. The second pillar is related to a healthy brain and nervous system. So, here comes our practice, the Zhineng Qigong methods. We can practice to help our body on a physical level to recover. The third pillar is healthy relationships. This obviously includes the relationship inside of us, with our true self. That’s one dimension. The other dimension

is our relationship with nature, with the universe, our relationship with other living beings, and our relationship between our body, mind, emotions, and spirit. So this I think is a big topic as well. I’d like to invite listeners to also reflect. When they are on their journey to health and holistic healing to take this into consideration. Really be honest about every relationship in your life. Is it healthy and

harmonious, balanced. Really? Question mark. Then go relationship, by relationship, by relationship and heal it. Including the relationship to yourself. If there’s a family member you don’t have a healthy relationship with, then for your own health and well-being, allow this to heal. Even if you feel the other person is so-called wrong, make it your own adventure to heal it anyhow, and look inside of you to see what you

can do to heal it. I actually take this pillar of true health quite seriously and started to heal relationships with my family, colleagues, neighbors, and friends, trying to really keep them healthy. Also, when someone pushes my red buttons, I’m invited to reflect on keeping this relationship healthy and harmonious because it has a strong impact on my own health and well-being. So for my own sake. So to speak.

Thank you. I think you brought up, an important point that we actually haven’t covered yet. It is true that relationships. If my relationships are not working or if they’re unhealthy. There’s no way, my emotional state can be healthy. There’s no way my thinking process can be healthy and then there is no way that my body can be healthy. So it will show up eventually. So thank you very

much for bringing that up, Britta. I think. I would love to go one final round and see whether there’s anything else that you guys think, you would like to add to this conversation. Anything we’ve missed or anything you’d like to focus in on. So let me start with Federico here. Is there anything that you feel you would like to express while we’re all together here? What I’m saying

now may sound a little bit shocking, but at the level of consciousness, if I’m not healing, it means that I do not wish to heal. So I still want to enjoy like all of the many things that Britta was referring to in relationships, in my mind and this and that. There’s a certain enjoyment. There’s a certain happiness that takes place in the melodrama of this and that. In

suffering, and contractions, difficulties and challenges. So at the level of consciousness, I’m still primarily interested in that. Maybe my wholeness will be found in these things. I’m still going outward to those things, thinking as consciousness I will be found there—my peace, my settling, my wholeness. So I would suggest that if, as consciousness, I realize this is not what I wish, then it’s a natural process. Nobody’s doing it;

it simply happens then. Maybe this is not what I want. Then I will be having the real motivation to trust in life. To follow the indications, because there are many that are being given. One of them. The most beautiful one in my life has been Zhineng Qigong. Oh, just follow, obey. It’s a matter of obedience, you see. You’re not obedient to somebody else. You’re obedient to yourself, to

your own heart. Oh, no, what I really want is to be at peace, to be whole. All the understandings of the world. They make no difference. If my heart is not open. They’re useless. So I think this is very important. It may sound. No, that’s insane. What does that mean? In my experience that is how it is. At the level of consciousness. If I make the choice, if

it has been made for me already, it has been made. I will be healed. I will be happy. I will be at peace. Then I will do whatever it takes. It doesn’t matter. Anything you will do anything. Anything. You will do that. But if you’re still. I think this. Maybe I’ll try. There’s so many things, thousands of things. I can try this and that, modelity and 300 this

and that, and all this and this. I’ve done it myself. Then I’m not really ready for healing yet. I haven’t really been worn down enough and reached the end of the road. You see, I think Zhineng Qigong, like some other disciplines, is really intended for those of us who have reached the end of the road. Just as a little anecdote: I think Debra or someone of you was

saying this, and then that anecdote came to me. When Huaxia was still open, the practice center in China, there were many sick people, like quadriplegics, people with cancer, you know, end stage of life, whatever. There’s the description, you know. Many people came in the practice field and they died in the practice field. They died there, standing up. They collapsed and died. But while they were practicing, they were

happy, they were whole, you see? So healing has many different dimensions. It doesn’t just mean, “Oh, yes, I have now a happy life and everything’s good.” Maybe I’m totally sick and in suffering until the very last second. And I’m there practicing. I considered it because I used to practice for two or three hours at a time. Oh, maybe I will collapse. I don’t know. Who cares? I’m very

good right now, you see, and then it doesn’t matter. So healing can have many different dimensions. Thank you very much for adding that, Federico. I’d like to come back to what you said right in the beginning, because I think this is a very important point. It really has to be with being brutally honest to oneself. I know that. I learned that in my coaching and training education. I

was told that if you want to know what your intentions are in life, look at your results, because the results will always tell you 100% what your intentions are. So If I am not healing. Then the truth is my intention is I don’t want to heal. Now, this sounds cruel to people, because they mix up their conscious intention, because they say, “Are you crazy? Of course I want

to heal.” With everything else that’s going on in the unconscious mind, which is in their way of healing. That brings us back to what Ronit said, and Debra said. It is about learning about yourself, learning, uncovering these things about yourself. Find out how come I don’t want to heal. Don’t deny it. There is something within you that obviously doesn’t want to heal because otherwise you would be going

through the healing process. So I think you said something extremely important. It might be shocking or painful for people initially. It is about the truth. It is about facing the truth and about what your intention really is in life. Then you might find out the most amazing things about yourself and see, “Wow, I didn’t even notice. I didn’t even realize I’m doing that or I’m thinking that way.”

Which is the frame of reference, you know, that we touched on earlier. This is creating all these emotions in me or all these issues within me, and this is why I have this disease. Which is causing me so much harm. I’m very grateful you bring up this point because it takes some courage to say these things. It’s not usual. It’s not always very popular if one says that.

But I think it is important. I’m not very popular. Okay, you are with me, Federico. So I just wanted to add a little bit to what you were saying. I’m so happy, Torsten, that you mentioned this because it’s really about sincerity. Superficially, anybody can say anything. I know because I have said those things. I know. Deeply in our hearts, to really know what I wish, what I truly

want, means that I know that I am divided, I am not whole. That’s what the other definition of health means. To be unified, integrated, there is no fragment. But if I speak with one half of my mouth and the other says the opposite, that means that I’m divided, I am not whole. So most of us do not wish to face this. I know it’s very hard, but it

is fundamentally important for healing. That’s where healing really begins. Thank you, Federico. I’d like to give the floor to Britta now. Your final thoughts on, have we missed anything? Are there any points that you would like to add or anything that you would just like to stress or focus on? So many meaningful and valuable insights, information, and experiences have been shared. Just maybe some final invitation to the

listeners is about the understanding that your health, your life is really controlled by yourself. So that you come to the conclusion that you are in charge and you are also responsible. I love the English word for responsibility because it entails the ability to respond. So you, inside of you, will find answers, insights, inspiration, and also maybe the willingness to spend resources on it. Meaning studying Zhineng Qigong, learning

the theories, practicing, learning about nutrition, and then applying nutrition. What does happy thoughts mean to you and how can you then come to change your thoughts so that they are healthy? Then supporting your health. What does happy relationships mean to you and how can you make your relationships healthy and harmonious? So really inviting you to embark on a journey of self discovery. Then what has been said, not

give up, because maybe the moment you have a breakthrough. You are about to make a breakthrough. You are having this breakthrough. Continue to be supported, find a community. Sometimes people can feel very lonely, although there are people out there willing to support and willing to be part of your healing journey. So that’s also, I think, now healing takes place on a community level, on a more togetherness level.

You’re not alone, right? You’re not, you’re not alone. I think this is also a very important message, and in particular, within the Zhineng Qigong community, there is so much support, so much love, so much openness that it is truly a possibility to get all the support that you need. Plus, all the fantastic teachers that we have and all the fantastic masters. So we should definitely take advantage of

that now. Debra, the floor is yours. Is there anything from your perspective that you would like to add or stress again? Well, I just hope that many things that have been spoken of here help someone in some way, because as you can see, there are no easy paths to get to complete healing. It will be different for everyone. I think it’s really important to understand that our Zhineng

Qigong practice—Dr. Pang designed this for us. It’s not a competition with someone else. How you know, your neighbor practices three hours a day. You practice 20 minutes a day. I mean, it’s not a competition. We do the best we can do with our practice to help us unfold all of these aspects of ourselves, so that we can realize and understand that we are being empowered through our practice.

These transformations are, they are really occurring. I would encourage everyone to, as Britta said, find someone. Begin to work with someone. I would suggest the student hub is a good place to start, but there are many, many people all over the world practicing. Once you become a part of the community, whether you come and go, step in, step out. You are always in that Qi field. It’s just

fine tuning our awareness to stay connected within that field and understanding who we really are. That’s how we create confidence and trust, using that through our practice to continue to build. So, thank you very much. Thank you very much, Debra. I think these are the perfect closing words. You started with the opening words, and you also gave us these beautiful closing words. So, I have to thank you

for that, and everything in between. From Ronit, from Britta, from Federico, and from yourself, has just been amazing information. Thank you from the bottom of my heart that you give us your time, your wisdom and your heart. So that hopefully, you know, some listeners out there might get. The one thought that will make a difference in his or her healing process, and his or her health situation. With

that spirit, I’ll end today’s conversation. Thank you very much everyone again. I’m wishing you all the best and I hope to see you guys soon. We trust you enjoyed this conversation, and we invite you to subscribe to our podcast so we can stay in touch and notify you of future episodes. We will end today’s episode with the Eight Verses Meditation, performed by Zhineng Qigong teacher Katrien Hendrickx. Enjoy.

To get your free eBook on the Eight Verses Meditation, please check the show notes below.