When Reyna Lerma heard that Zhineng Qigong can be a tool for all phases of life, she was wondering, how about healing at the end of life? Being a volunteer at a hospice, she realized that Qigong is a powerful gift for all involved, the person transitioning, but also to the family and loved ones. She knew to keep an open heart and open mind, because even when dying, everything is
possible. My name is Torsten Lueddecke, and this is the Western Qigong Podcast. First of all, I just want to take a moment to express my gratitude for taking this time to delve into all the different capacities that Zhineng Qigong can help us, with Zhineng Qigong being a tool. I was inspired by Master Liu during a retreat in China, I believe in 2016. He was very passionately sharing that
Zhineng Qigong can be a tool to support, you know, so many levels of our life. He brought up the end of life, actually, and in a 360-degree story. I came to Zhineng Qigong through being a hospice volunteer, so we supported people, walking with them, you know, at the end of their life. I met Zhineng Qigong at a volunteer appreciation day. There was a Qigong demo, and they happened
to share the opening of Level One: Hold Qi Up – Pour Qi Down. I knew that was the rest of my life, and so I took the journey with Zhineng Qigong for various years, and by then, I think I’d been practicing for maybe six or seven years at least. When this China retreat occurred, and in the moment that Master Liu said, you know, even helping people leave life,
something clicked inside. I said, I want to come back to working with this population because we know that in this life, no matter what practice, no matter how powerful, how potent, we are all going to leave this body. There’s not a practice on this earth that’ll tell you you will live forever in this body. There’s going to be. Life is about transformation, and so although we talk about
healing in Zhineng Qigong, and healing is possible ultimately, truly, I’ve seen this happen many, many times in my life in Zhineng Qigong. Healing can absolutely happen. The question is, what is healing? What is healing? Many of us in our society believe healing is a cure. There’s a difference between cure and healing. So curing is no longer the discomfort, no longer the disease in the body, and healing, in
my opinion, is so much deeper. It’s so much deeper. A cure can happen from healing. Healing not only deals with the physical body but also deals with the emotional, the mental, and, if we want to call it, spiritual. So this is why I was once again, my passion to support these people at the end of life. Because in that time, there’s many changes, not only in the physical
body, but if someone’s willing to be able to fully awaken. Because at that time, there is no. What I’ve come to find, there’s no mask. You know, people see it’s in a way, like looking in a mirror and not being able to look away, to say, my time is becoming shorter. So ultimately, each one of us, we are alive until the moment we stop breathing. So I felt
very called to support people, to awaken themselves, to open their hearts, to open their minds, because my intention for working with this population is to support them to be at their highest level of consciousness at the moment that they transition. So again, when Master Liu shared, you know, to bring Zhineng Qigong into the world in all the levels possible, I said, I will take this route because I’ve
already done this, I’ve already done this. But I didn’t have the tool, this amazing tool that is Zhineng Qigong, to be able to support with pain management, to again, support if they need to do any hard work, any healing for themselves, of forgiving or forgiving themselves, to find the mental clarity to what needs to be done externally and internally for them to. So I feel that healing at
the end of life is such a powerful gift, not only for the person, but also for the family members. I know that, you know, we’ve experienced life, we’re all living beings, and we’ve experienced loss at some point in time. When someone is transitioning, it may be in a moment and it might be, you know, a long journey. So the family also has to navigate. They’re also each in
their own journey, and people deal with transition in different ways. Of course, my work is to focus on the person that’s going on the journey and then also, in a way, support the family surrounding them. That’s fantastic work that you’re doing there, Reyna. I heard that there’s a couple of levels you’re working with. You’re also on the practical level. For example, when you spoke about pain, we know
that Zhineng Qigong can help relieve pain. So it helps you to, you know, from the physical body to help stabilize certain conditions so that, you know, life is easier for the person dying, but it seems that the focus is really on the. On the Emotional and mental healing and on the consciousness work so that we are basically at our best when we are transitioning. Is that what you’re
doing with your work here? Yes. I feel that that is a very, you know. I personally can’t say, you know, none of us can really say what happens in that moment with certainty to say here, here’s my proof. But I feel why not? As I also shared before, that every single moment we’re alive until the moment we transition. And so why not? In a way we all are
on this journey. We are all on this journey. So why not awaken? Why not see what our potential is? Why not see how much we can open our hearts, how much we can open our minds? Why not see, even then, the self-healing abilities again in the last moment? I’m no longer surprised at how surprised I get when I see what many people would call a miracle. Anything truly
is possible. Anything truly is possible. And so I go in and work with the client, and I’m also very practical, logical. Ultimately, it’s their intention. I’m not there to give false hope, but I’m also not there to say, okay, let’s just, you know, take the time until you’re gone, make the absolute most of it. Ultimately their intention, their journey is what’s guiding the process. So I would add
that up until the moment of transition to be at the highest place possible, if we want to call it high. I know it’s not necessarily the deepest, you know, the most open. Also the journey leading up to that, to see what is possible. What I like about this, I mean, among many things, what I like about it, it also requires a mind shift because in our society we
are kind of conditioned to work towards something. So it’s a little bit like, you know, why work with dying people? Because their life is over soon. So it’s, it’s kind of, it’s not worth investing into that. But what you are saying, you’re completely doing a change in the mindset here because what you’re saying, every moment, no matter when in your life, has the same value. Whether there is
a future, so to speak, or no future, doesn’t make a difference because a moment is a moment. We are so, so conditioned to always think, okay, I’m doing something so that my future is better, so that I can reap rewards in the future. While really living fully is the opposite. It’s about being in the moment. And I know I’m talking about something you’re an expert about, because even
your business is called Present Moment Living. So I love that idea, because no matter where I am in my life and no matter whether I’ve got another 50 years, 10 years, one year, or one day, that moment I’m having right now is just as precious as any other moment. So what I make of it is all that matters. I think that mind shift is important because it’s a
bit like. Otherwise, like, yeah, okay, there are dying people, so why bother? Right? But it’s the opposite, actually, because these moments are just as precious. Yes, and they’re precious on so many levels. Because they’re so powerful, there’s so much, you know, for me, I look at time. There’s a depth to it. There’s a depth to time, and where are we willing, vibrationally, to be in that moment? As
I’ve worked with many people walking this journey, there’s been—I get so much. I actually get so much out of it because the gifts that they have to give to those around them are so, yes, I’ll say, absolutely precious. You know, like in the movies, I’ve had people grab me by my shirt and say, live your life, because mine is leaving. They’re, you know, week in, week out, I
would go to them, and they’re in the same bed, you know. And so I would go in, even with my mindset of supporting the gifts that they give to those around them, if they’re willing to open up their hearts. And, you know, as you shared, our society—we’re conditioned in such a profound way to not want to grow old, to not, if there isn’t, you know, I’m doing something
for this future, that there’s lots of programming that we have. And that’s why many people cannot deal with loved ones when they’re passing, because it is a mirror to them to say, one day this will also be you. And we can’t accept that. But if we are in oneness, you know, many of us don’t ever think about our own death. I feel that really considering that if we
really connect to that, it actually helps you live more fully because, you know that all of this one day will transition. Everything, you know, changes, transforms. So when we can accept that, what is there to fear in this life? There’s really nothing, in my opinion. You know, and in our life, we. We die thousands of deaths. You know, there’s so much that we, quote, unquote, lose. But if
we are oneness, this is just as natural as being alive, and when we accept that and we open to that. Imagine in someone’s life, if someone’s, you know, in the dying process, many people have a hard time accepting it when it’s happening to them. So why not be that open heart instead of, you know, turning away for their own, I would call it, selfishness? You know, they don’t
want to see the pain or feel it, but this person needs us. So it’s a population that, again, like you shared, it’s easy to discard, but one day that’ll be us. More than that, because in the oneness, there’s so much to share, and there’s so much to learn from everyone at any moment in time. We have a way you can discover Qigong. At the Zhineng Qigong Students Hub,
we know that understanding Qigong is very important, and we also recognize that Zhineng Qigong itself has various nuances that people can’t easily comprehend. So we’ve approached it in the style of a video game. On this page, Discover Qigong, you can select your character. You can either be a beginner, a practitioner, a holistic healer, or a self-healer. And you click on your character, and it takes you to these
different sections. In these sections, you can explore the nuances, and when you click on a card, all of the resources pop up. We’ve made it really fun, and not many people know about it. So if you are interested, have a look and discover Qigong. On a practical level, Reyna, when you go into the hospitals and meet someone for the first time, how do you introduce Zhineng Qigong or
the ideas? How do you start working with these people? I mean, you already said that ultimately it’s their agenda and what they want to achieve that you respect. But you must have some approach to how you integrate Zhineng Qigong into that stage of their lives. Yes. Up until now, many people have actually been referrals through Zhineng Qigong, or they have heard of Zhineng Qigong. Actually, many people are
relatives, and so they hear about the qualities of self-healing in Zhineng Qigong, and they reach out to me because—you know, I’ll give an example. A son has reached out to me because they want their mother to heal. They’re, in a way, not necessarily accepting what’s happening. And so, when working with the mother, she was already unconscious, actually. She was at that stage in her journey where she wasn’t
conscious. But I still worked with her, organized the Qi field, and for several days, her physical body was transforming in a way that the son was like, something is happening right now. She was literally cleansing—you know, not to get too detailed—but bodily functions were moving that had not been moving at all. So her physical body was cleansing itself from the field. You know, she transitioned. But her son
later, about a week later, messaged me and said that was exactly what we needed. I didn’t realize it in the moment. I was holding on to having my mother still be with us, but I couldn’t accept it, and you supported us to go through that. So, you know, I always say it’s not me, I’m just a vessel. It’s life, you know, it’s life itself. But to answer your
question, many people are referrals. Either they’re. They don’t care what it is, they just want. They want to see the healing or they already know Zhineng Qigong, and so when I speak to the client, you know, first let them share where they are, what they need, and then, you know, educate. I look at myself as an educator just sharing information and seeing, you know, how they resonate. Of
course, I’m already studying the field and, you know, connecting in that way. People have been very, very responsive. Sometimes, people need to experience it first before I say, okay, this is this. And other people are more cerebral, you know, they’re like, what are you gonna do? So being very in the moment is very powerful because, at least for myself, I don’t have a system to say, okay, this
is this, this is this, this is this. Because it’s a very raw time. It’s a very raw time in people’s lives. And so I navigate and see what comes when it is necessary. The focus is on building the Qi field, and then it starts to feel more like a conversational healing, using the principles and ideas of Zhineng Qigong. Then, if there’s an opportunity, I’ll introduce maybe a little
bit of La Qi or, depending on how mobile they are, have them do some physical exercises with me as well so that they can get in touch with whatever that means for them. Is this, is that what you’re doing? Absolutely, absolutely, always. And then, if they can’t move, you know, I guide them through meditation, whatever, you know, whatever the moment calls for. But, you know, to walk them
into the journey of Zhineng Qigong in any way that’s needed in the moment, and then build from there. And again, you know, sometimes people are also on heavy medication. You know, there’s, again, it’s a spectrum within this population of, you know, one week they’re doing great, the next, you know, very difficult. So, you know, you have to be prepared to read the field and see what is needed.
But all of that is absolutely what I share. Now, you’re obviously a very experienced practitioner and teacher, but what I pick up is that if, you know, I have a situation at home, for example, where I have someone in that stage of their lives, really what it needs is the core principle of Zhineng Qigong, which is open heart, open mind. and with that alone, I can probably do
the work. Maybe, yeah, not as sophisticated as you would do it, but that doesn’t really matter because it’s the intention you’re coming from that will make a difference to that person. Would you encourage people to just approach it with this way, or do you have any other practical advice? If I’m in a situation and I have a loved one who is about to transition from life to wherever
they are going. Yeah, that’s a great question. Absolutely, absolutely. I’ll say, I’ll say yes to both, you know, when. And as I shared before, we don’t realize how much someone may need us at that moment in time. So, as an example, for me, I come into a family, and everyone is like, you know, they’re overwhelmed, they’re going through everything, and you just come as a happy heart, a
loving heart, accepting them in their physical form, accepting them, being so present, hearing every word, like really being there for them in that open place. So powerful, so powerful, that right there is like all you need. So I’ll say for those that, you know, the family members, you know, just see them as that bright light that they are and always will be, it just might not be in
that physical body. So, absolutely, I encourage, do not walk away from people that are in this stage of life for many reasons. There’s so much healing that occurs when you’re willing to sit in front of the person, when you’re willing, you know, even if they share the same story over and over again, you know, listen to it, treasure it. So powerful, you’re never, you’re never going to regret
the time you spend with someone during that stage. Even though they go through whatever they’re going through, you will be a beautiful beacon of light with your training, your practice. You know, there doesn’t have to be any official training. I personally went through a training outside of Zhineng Qigong called end-of-life doula training. There’s, it’s a new, I’ll say, overall new training, but there are many, many different trainers
now in the world that are starting to see. Of course, everything was left up to hospice before, but now they see hospice as much as the great work that it does, and end-of-life and doula work together. End of life, we’re not medically trained, but, you know, it’s training in a different way. Because if you’re not familiar with the end-of-life process, there are stages. You know, everything from six
months, you know, a year, actually, I’ll say. If the person is meant to pass, there are stages in weeks before the body starts to show different signs, days before, hours before. And so, out of, you know, curiosity, if those that feel, “Let me feel more prepared,” I would encourage you to learn more about the end-of-life process, because if you don’t… As an example, I have a loved one
in front of me, and a few hours before people pass, sometimes the breathing changes and it sounds a little bit dramatic. If you’ve never heard of it before and you don’t know about it and it’s happening in the moment, that might be a lot for you. So, you know, or what senses start to shut down or sometimes people see family members and dreams, or they feel things around
them. All of that’s normal. All of that’s normal. And so, you know, but if you want to learn more, then you can be more prepared. But just having your open heart and mind is also great preparation. I mean, that’s very cool. And the truth is, as you said, very few of us ever look into death and prepare for what it actually means, what’s actually happening when we are
transitioning. So, it’s a very good idea to look deeper into that and do some research and understand these things so that you are in a better position to be with someone who is in this transition. So, I think that’s really good advice there, Reyna. Now, I want to touch on something else because you also mentioned oneness a couple of times, and you and I totally agree on this
idea of oneness because we think it’s just so obvious—there is no such thing as a separate Reyna and a separate Torsten. It is all just one thing. It’s our mind that creates the separation and says, okay, this is a table. This is a microphone. This is the leg of the table. But really, where does the leg of the table start and the table bottom continues? Nobody knows. Right.
Well, this is my shoulder. This is my arm. Where is exactly does my shoulder stop and my arm start? It’s just not a physical reality. So, reality is oneness. So, if you take this into consideration, then it is more like if a leaf is falling off a tree, you know, the tree continues. Yes, the leaf might be falling off, but the tree continues. It’s all one, and life
continues. So, how does that idea of oneness integrate into the work that you are doing? Yes. Yeah, I would definitely say, again, those that, that don’t, you know, again, the mind, you know, for us, it’s… It’s so normal. You know, I look at it like if I open the door here to my office, where does the air of the office and the air of the hallway… you know?
How can you? There is no separation. And so, when I look at what oneness means, again, we are seeing a reflection of ourselves in everything and everyone. There is a connection some way, somehow. And for many of us, it’s really beyond our understanding. But to be able to understand that oneness when that person is laying in that bed or that person is, you know, facing their own transition.
That again, is a reflection of what one day this body will go through, and so when you look at life in oneness, it’s not. Your heart is more open, your heart is more open, you’re more willing. You’re more able to perceive that, you know, we are connected, we are connected. The oneness that I speak of in this aspect of the work is like, I shared the gifts that
people have to give at this time, the gifts that I have to share, that I want to share, you know, during that time. So we know, we think of. I like to think of us like a human tribe and we talking about tribes in indigenous cultures, completely different, completely different view on death. You know, many, many, it’s not about dying alone. It’s like dying with everyone. Like everyone.
It’s like, it’s actually like a birth. That moment of death is actually like a birth. Everyone, you know, if we think about when someone’s about to be born, everyone’s excited, you know, whoever’s at the hospital, or if they’re birthing at home, you know, the loved ones are there, just like with it, like, you know, breathing together almost. This is the same. I would, I would love it for
it to be the same with those that are transitioning, because there is, we’re all going through something when someone’s passing in front of you, and that’s an amazing field. I’ll say that the moment when someone actually passes, and we have the honor, and there’s a whole nother talk I can talk about if you can consciously decide when to go. I believe that, and we’ve seen it before. It’s
nothing, wow. You know, someone can be dying, and, you know, a son or daughter is across the world, and they wait for them to come, and then they pass. So, I would say it’s an honor to witness the moment someone passes. They allowed you to be there, and the field is amazing. It’s just the ultimate blessing that they’re giving, in my opinion, as the moment that they transition.
I say oneness. I mean, you feel that. You feel that at the core, there’s something beyond your understanding that you feel when something like that is happening. I would say that would be the way to describe oneness, that if you ever have that honor to the moment someone passes and you’re in a clear place, not attached, you know, just holding the space for what is. The information you
receive in that moment is something I’ve never experienced in any other place, honestly. So, yeah. Is there anything that we. That you would like to add to this topic that you feel like we haven’t touched upon? I wouldn’t necessarily say add, but just reinforce that the potential is there always and for anything. But be aware that, you know, everyone will transition, including ourselves. So to walk that, to
walk in that place when you’re supporting someone, to just hold space, to hold space. It’s their intention, it’s their journey. I know it’s easier said than done—a mother, a father, a sibling, a spouse, a loved one—to be in that place of centeredness and not be attached. To say, don’t leave me. I understand, but it would be, in my opinion, the best of service just to be love. And
love doesn’t hold. Love allows, in my opinion. So, I guess I would add that to check your own self and how attached… Because people, what I’ve seen, people will hold on if someone’s not ready. Also, and this is what I said, how conscious can we decide, okay, it’s time now. I’ve seen people suffer greatly because another person wasn’t ready. And you know, that’s their journey. You know, they,
they both intended that way to be again in the realm of oneness. There’s something there for them to learn. But I would just say that, just be love. Just be love and allow. I think these are beautiful closing words, Reyna, and I’m very grateful that you’re sharing all this knowledge with us and all this wisdom. Also, I’m very grateful for the work you do with the people you
are accompanying here, and hopefully some of the listeners will have learned something because we will all be in a similar situation one way or another, not just as the person who is dying, but obviously many times before that as the person who is there to be with someone who is going on this journey. So I think this is very valuable. And yeah, and I’d like to thank you
for contributing to this podcast. And I’ve just. Before we started, Reyna is a very skilled teacher and there are quite a few topics that she suggested that we might also discuss in one of the podcasts. So hopefully there are going to be many more episodes with you. And I might just add that you are also part of the eLearning course we are launching these days, the large eLearning
course as the essence of Zhineng Qigong. So I think this is very valuable. And yeah, I’d like to thank you for contributing to this podcast. And I’ve just—before we started—Reyna is a very skilled teacher, and there are quite a few topics that she suggested that we might also discuss in one of the podcasts. So hopefully, there are going to be many more episodes with you. And I might
just add that you are also part of the eLearning course we are launching these days, the large eLearning course as the essence of Zhineng Qigong. Yeah, absolutely. This is why it’s so important to have an open heart and an open mind to be clear, just to be that love and that support. Because their journey is the journey that they’re meant to take. Their intention is guiding it. And
so do I share about the infinite possibilities. I absolutely give them that because everyone around them is like, oh, you’re dying, you’re dying. So much information. So if they have more within this life that they’re meant to still be here, if everyone around them gives them this, from the diagnosis to everyone, loved ones, they’re going to follow that. And so I always look to empower and share the
infinite possibilities, saying that the human, you know, this is how I share Zhineng Qigong about empowering them, giving them the information that what steps are happening. They’re leading the way. They’re leading the way. And so I’ve had several people, several people recover. And so, yeah, that. And like I said earlier, I’m no longer surprised at how surprised I get at these. Again, what we’d call miracles. What we’d
call miracles, because. Yeah, and that’s all you can say. Then you better believe they become Zhineng Qigong practitioners. I love that. I just imagine how that person was in the hospice, and you open him or her up to the possibility, if you are not ready yet, if there’s more that you want in your life or from your life, there’s a possibility for complete recovery. And they kind of
turn around, say, thank you very much, leave the hospitals, and continue with their life. So I think this is very powerful. So I just had to ask this question because we’ve all heard of so many miracle healings. It’s just, I didn’t. I didn’t know whether this is happening in the context of the hospitals, where basically everybody around them has decided this is it. So it is quite a
powerful information field that they need to crack an opening, and then it’s either taken by your client or not. Depending on which stage they are in their lives and what their individual journey will be. But I’m glad you’ve added that information because we know that it is possible, and that’s also an important message for all our listeners who may find themselves in a position where Western medicine says,
“Sorry, there’s nothing we can do.” Really, what they’re saying is there’s nothing we can do, and it doesn’t mean there’s nothing one can do. There are many modalities, and Zhineng Qigong is the powerful one that we know of, but there might be others. So I can only encourage people to look and, without being attached to anything, look for opportunities for openings, and then who knows what’s happening? So
I’m glad we mentioned that as well, Reyna. So thank you very much, Reyna, and, yeah, have a fantastic day. Thank you, you as well. We trust you enjoyed this conversation, and we invite you to subscribe to our podcast so we can stay in touch and notify you of future episodes. We will end today’s episode with the Eight Verses Meditation performed by Zhineng Qigong teacher Katrien Hendrickx. Enjoy. To
get your free eBook on the Eight Verses Meditation, please check the show notes below.
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